Dan's Mistakes

[isestrex]

Yes, agreed... And Ubaldo in context wasn't a mistake. At the time we felt like we had to have a SP because we didn't know much about Norris or Gausman and didn't know if Chen and Gonzo would hold up or if Tillman would fully arrive. Fast-forward nine months and we've got six legit SP's, if you count Ubaldo. I file this one under 'doing what you have to do' not as a mistake... We knew the dollars and years were both reaches, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Back to the actual topic, it's pretty amazing that DD doesn't have hardly any real mistakes in all of the actions he takes.

Completely disagree. I saw it as a huge mistake from the beginning and was very adamant in saying so. I will never give Dan a pass on signing such a stupid contract on such a fluky pitcher. Even if the context dictated signing a pitcher, signing Ubaldo and for that duration was nothing short of boneheaded. If you're drifting in the middle of the ocean and you have the choice between no water and saltwater, you don't drink the saltwater just because at least it's something.

...but thankfully it's an anomaly in Dan's body of work.

[POR]

An under-the-radar mistake that's been discussed here before was the trade of Pat Neshek to the A's in the middle of a playoff race in 2012 and only getting "cash considerations" in return.

Yeah, he was blocked at the big-league level, but Neshek had a 2.66 ERA in Norfolk that year, with 11 saves and 49 strikeouts, seven walks and one home run in 44 innings.

Some have claimed that giving the guy a shot to play for a team who could fit them onto their major league roster was the "nice" thing to do, but it should have been apparent that he was undergoing a career resurgence and deserved to be a part of the O's future plans.

Of course, his 2014 numbers with the Cardinals were ridiculously good.

Neshek is a free agent. MLBtradeRumors projects 2 years , ten million contract. I think this is pretty reasonable considering the year he had in 2014. Is he too similiar to O'Day? Obviously the Orioles are more in the market for a lefty out of the bullpen now that Miller is gone.

When Neshek pitched against the Orioles when the Cardinals were in Baltimore in August, the Orioles took some of the worse swings against him that you see major leaguers take. I was shocked that he was throwing in the low to mid 90's and with his funky delivery he completely overmatched the hitters.

[Old#5fan]

DD has made a lot fewer obvious mistakes than most of the recent O's management. And a LOT more not-obvious good moves. Way more of those. I think Jimenez was the move that was obviously risky and that could be a huge waste of money. But there's still hope for Jimenez.

I have now seen two different posters on this thread claiming there is still hope for Jimenez, and for the life of me I would like to know, based on what? It isn't like he wa injured last year that I am aware. Why will his performance be so much better this year? I honestly think he will be worse and let go. There is much more logic to that being the case than the opposite!

[mdbdotcom]

I have now seen two different posters on this thread claiming there is still hope for Jimenez, and for the life of me I would like to know, based on what? It isn't like he wa injured last year that I am aware. Why will his performance be so much better this year? I honestly think he will be worse and let go. There is much more logic to that being the case than the opposite!

His last two starts, after they worked with him on simplifying his delivery:

10 IP, 4 ER (3.60 ERA), 9 SO, 1.2 WHIP

He also kept his pitch count down. In each game he went five innings and threw fewer than 80 pitches.

[weams]

I have now seen two different posters on this thread claiming there is still hope for Jimenez, and for the life of me I would like to know, based on what? It isn't like he wa injured last year that I am aware. Why will his performance be so much better this year? I honestly think he will be worse and let go. There is much more logic to that being the case than the opposite!

Because Jimenez, despite being idiosyncratic, has shown before remarkable periods of work. Much like we covet in many pitchers who are not currently under contract to the Baltimore Orioles. No reason to think he will change. You know being good for a while and being bad for a while. That's why.

[Crazysilver03]

Giving away Pat Neshek for nothing. And rehabbing Wada and not resigning him.

And how exactly would Wada have fit on this team last year?

[Crazysilver03]

I have now seen two different posters on this thread claiming there is still hope for Jimenez, and for the life of me I would like to know, based on what? It isn't like he wa injured last year that I am aware. Why will his performance be so much better this year? I honestly think he will be worse and let go. There is much more logic to that being the case than the opposite!

Your lack of baseball knowledge is showing. There is less than 0% chance that Ubaldo would be released in the middle of his second year of a four year deal. Especially with several pitching free agents after next year.

[Old#5fan]

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Your lack of baseball knowledge is showing. There is less than 0% chance that Ubaldo would be released in the middle of his second year of a four year deal. Especially with several pitching free agents after next year.

ZERO chance???? Color me stupid but say, what happens if by half the season he has an ERA of 12.60 and causing the team to lose virtually every game he starts? Maybe I don't understand and you could enlighten me as to where they would be able to hide him without hurting the team? Fake an injury? He still get paid so why not cut him and cut your losses by adding someone productive to the roster?

[DrungoHazewood]

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ZERO chance???? Color me stupid but say, what happens if by half the season he has an ERA of 12.60 and causing the team to lose virtually every game he starts? Maybe I don't understand and you could enlighten me as to where they would be able to hide him without hurting the team? Fake an injury? He still get paid so why not cut him and cut your losses by adding someone productive to the roster?

You know exactly what he meant. Yes, if he's the worst starter in the major leagues by a long, long way (which is what a 12.60 ERA would be - I'd hazard a guess that Adam Jones would do better than that), he might well be released. But not before he's moved to the pen, buried in long relief, gone on the DL with a terrible case of the mysterious ailments. Teams don't regularly release guys with 2.5 years and $30M still on their contracts, not unless the circumstances are truly dire.

Zero percent was an exaggeration. It's probably more like 2%.

[Can_of_corn]

Again, that's in hindsight although a few, like COC, claimed it was obvious at the time. The Yoon signing is less costly but looks like the bigger mistake. DD couldn't have foreseen that Wada would need surgery before he ever threw a regular season pitch for the O's. Yoon just stinks.

It was obvious.

Good for him that he was one of the few that received a velocity boost from TJ surgery.

[OFFNY]

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ZERO chance???? Color me stupid but say, what happens if by half the season he has an ERA of 12.60 and causing the team to lose virtually every game he starts? Maybe I don't understand and you could enlighten me as to where they would be able to hide him without hurting the team? Fake an injury? He still get paid so why not cut him and cut your losses by adding someone productive to the roster?

You know exactly what he meant. Yes, if he's the worst starter in the major leagues by a long, long way (which is what a 12.60 ERA would be - I'd hazard a guess that Adam Jones would do better than that), he might well be released. But not before he's moved to the pen, buried in long relief, gone on the DL with a terrible case of the mysterious ailments. Teams don't regularly release guys with 2.5 years and $30M still on their contracts, not unless the circumstances are truly dire.

Zero percent was an exaggeration. It's probably more like 2%.

STUDENT (WOOZIE): "Suppose that you didn't make your Easter duty ...... and it's Pentecost Sunday ...... the last day ...... and you're on a ship at sea ...... and the chaplain goes into a coma ...... but you wanted to receive. And then it's Monday, too late ...... but then you cross the International Date Line !!!?"

FATHER: "Yes, I'm sure that God will take that into account. Sit down, Woozie."

George Carlin, 1972

[jcarm]

That would have taken a huge, brass pair to trade Davis coming of the season he had. I don't get the Norris negativity on here. It's very possible that Norris pitches well enough to earn a QO. So that's 2.5 yrs of a legit #4 starter and a 1st rd pick for Hader, Hoes, and comp pick. Ubaldo is the only mistake DD has made, but he even if he is just a league average starter, it's not that much of an overpay.

I agree, no way was Davis being traded after his big season. I think the Norris trade has worked out well for the O's-I too don't understand why some people here don't appreciate his contributions the last year and 1/2. He pitched very well this year for the Orioles in both the regular and post seasons.

[LookitsPuck]

And how exactly would Wada have fit on this team last year?

Matusz trade, mayhaps?

[Old#5fan]

You know exactly what he meant. Yes, if he's the worst starter in the major leagues by a long, long way (which is what a 12.60 ERA would be - I'd hazard a guess that Adam Jones would do better than that), he might well be released. But not before he's moved to the pen, buried in long relief, gone on the DL with a terrible case of the mysterious ailments. Teams don't regularly release guys with 2.5 years and $30M still on their contracts, not unless the circumstances are truly dire.

Zero percent was an exaggeration. It's probably more like 2%.

If you want to get that technical about it his absurd post respond to mine actually said "less than zero percent chance,"which isn't just an exaggeration but is actually mathematically impossible. Yet you defend him? Aren't you waaay smarter than that? I sure think you are!

[Nevermore]

I have now seen two different posters on this thread claiming there is still hope for Jimenez, and for the life of me I would like to know, based on what? It isn't like he wa injured last year that I am aware. Why will his performance be so much better this year? I honestly think he will be worse and let go. There is much more logic to that being the case than the opposite!

Because Buck put him into the pen, which was the best thing to happen for him. No other manager on any other team had done that, even in his worst years. Moving him to the pen, presumably for mop-up duty, let Ubaldo know that things were truly serious and he had to work on straightening himself out. Buck didn't care if he had a $40 million dollar mop-up man, he knew that things had to improve.

And as it turned out, Ubaldo didn't whine, moan, or sulk about being taken out of the rotation. Instead, he put in some bullpen sessions with Wallace and Chiti. They got his delivery simplified, which helped him with his command. After one disastrous relief appearance, Buck didn't use him, but he kept working. A postponed game and a weather glitch necessitated a spot start for someone. Buck chose Ubaldo because he thought that this would give the Os the best chance of winning; apparently Buck knew about those bullpen sessions with Wallace and Chiti. And Ubaldo came through, and then went on to make another good spot start against the Yankees, and then struck out the Blue Jays in a relief appearance.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have any illusions that Ubaldo will suddenly become the next Jim Palmer. He still has some work to do to let go of bad habits; perhaps he might have to start the 2015 season in the pen, as a spot starter - in other words, as the 5th starter. Yep, he might be a rather expensive 5th starter, but that's water over the dam. I think that someone with a work ethic like his can contribute to the team.