Would Duquette have signed Cruz if......

[33rdst]

Part of the reason I started the thread was to try to illustrate the dilemma the GM of a smaller market team has. The idea that we just can't eat contracts like those we have given the players mentioned. Whether it's trying to sign Cruz or extend Tillman, Chen, Davis,Machado or Weiters. Contracts like these can damage teams like ours that don't have the payroll flexibility of our competitors. It just helps me appreciate how difficult Duquette's job is in trying to sustain a winner.

[BohKnowsBmore]

I absolutely agree. And the market for Cruz was why DD didn't sign him, not the O's budget. Put another way, if DD didn't have those commitments to Ubaldo and Yoon, he still wasn't going to shell out 58 million to a one dimensional aging DH coming off a career year.

That's how you end up with a question 3 years down the line of: "if DD didn't have Cruz's contract, would he have been able to extend Machado?" or something like that.

[Bahama O's Fan]

I don't think this is much to do with it. I think if he had 100 million to spend, he still does not overspend. He had a number that he thought Cruz would be worth and that's what he offered.

[Frobby]

I know, I looked it up before I posted.

Jake has a slight advantage in ERA+.

I think the difference is slight enough that comparable is a very fair term.

I'd give Bedard a significant edge due to the quality of the lineups he was facing on a regular basis. That said, Jake had a helluva season and it will be interesting to see if he's just as good in 2015. It's frustrating as hell that we were unable to unlock his potential.

[BohKnowsBmore]

I don't think this is much to do with it. I think if he had 100 million to spend' date=' he still does not overspend. He had a number that he thought Cruz would be worth and that's what he offered.[/quote']

Which is a good strategy. You shouldn't spend more just because you can. That impacts the ability to make other deals.

[Dipper9]

I don't think this is much to do with it. I think if he had 100 million to spend' date=' he still does not overspend. He had a number that he thought Cruz would be worth and that's what he offered.[/quote']

I agree with this. Not signing Cruz had nothing to do with Ubaldo and everything to do with not signing a DH to 4 years who would be 38/39 at the end of the contract.

[Spy Fox]

Maybe, but it's interesting. Because of the draft pick situation at the time, if we didn't sign Ubaldo we might not have signed Cruz to begin with.

[DrungoHazewood]

...... he wasn't saddled by the bad contracts of Ubaldo Jimenez and Sun Yuk Moon (14,225,000). Right off the bat let me say that I love Duquette and I think he's the best GM the O's have had since Hank Peters. However, just for the sake of discussion, does Duquette offer Cruz more money if he doesn't have these contracts? Or did he value Cruz at the level of his offer and wouldn't have gone any higher regardless?

I think Duquette would have gone higher on a three year deal and, although that might not have been enough to counter Seattle's four year offer, it might have made a difference.

Here's another thought. What would Wallace have been able to do with Stroop and Arrieta if they weren't traded for Feldman.

Hey, it's 13 degrees outside what else do you have to do?

I wouldn't lump Yoon in with Ubaldo. Yoon makes less in his entire 3-year deal than Ubaldo did by last All Star break.

And maybe this is my own point of view inserting itself, but I think Cruz isn't an Oriole because he's a soon-to-be 35-year-old DH who will probably go through his career terminating decline in the next couple years. But he wanted and got 4/57. Duquette thought that was excessive in years and money. It's madness to sign a guy to a multi-year contract based on a career+walk year at 33/34.

[foxfield]

Erik Bedard had arm problems and was never the same. Could happen to Jake too. He missed some time last spring. Still, if he stays healthy he looked awesome last summer. Also, even in his good year, I don't think Bedard was as good as Jake was last year.

I looked at the numbers, but I think the year that Bedard had in Baltimore in the AL East was much better than Jakes year in NL. Pretty sure he struck out 10 per 9 innings too. And it is worth pointing out that Bedard is a lefty and Jake a righty. I'll put it this way. If Jake had his season in 2007, I don't believe Andy would have had the Reds and Mariners looking to unload the cabinet to get him. But maybe I am just bitter that he didn't make it here.

[AdamK]

I don't think this is much to do with it. I think if he had 100 million to spend' date=' he still does not overspend. He had a number that he thought Cruz would be worth and that's what he offered.[/quote']

I think you are right.

When you hear of cheap rich people, maybe this is what they are doing: understanding the value of things and not overpaying for them. No matter what.

One day maybe I can verify this theory in a more informed way. Until then, let's go camping.

[54_OsFan]

Just clearly did not want to overspend I feel and go more years than what he was comfortable with. I think Dans greatest asset he brings as GM is he pays players what they are worth based on the statistics he feels are important.

You look at the Ravens and their competitor today the Patriots, how those organizations have stayed competitive for so long is they always pay players on future performance never on past performance which we can all say some of the ex-GM's around here have fallen victim to (Belle, Segui, etc.).

Ubaldo could be the one mistake Dan makes during his tenure with the O's but I feel you have to give Ubaldo some time to prove his worth at the age of 30. I will say this though, I recall him not staying with the team for the ALCS which concerns me if he is truly an all in team type guy and good presence for the younger guys.

[Nevermore]

Ubaldo could be the one mistake Dan makes during his tenure with the O's but I feel you have to give Ubaldo some time to prove his worth at the age of 30. I will say this though, I recall him not staying with the team for the ALCS which concerns me if he is truly an all in team type guy and good presence for the younger guys.

Wow, are people still bringing up this nonsense? Who knows why Ubaldo wasn't with the team during the ALCS. Who knows, maybe Buck or Wallace wanted him to join Chris in Florida to work on his stuff. Or maybe his family needed him; Domincans hold family to be all important. I'm sure that Buck was OK with this or he would have said sometihng.