TT: The Orioles should let Duquette walk

[theobird]

I believe that he is as good as gone, and I also think that he should be. IMO, you get the best compensation you can get, and then move forward with a GM that wants to be here. As most of you know, I stand by what I have always said, this team was built for the most part by Andy MacPhail. IMO, MacPhail was an excellent GM and that is the guy who righted the ship. I am not really negative towards Duquette, I think he has done a decent job for us. But he is not, and never will be, the greatest GM on earth as some on here think he is. I am ready to move on.

[atomic]

I don't believe Duke had anything to do with the culture change. That was just coincidental. It cracks me up how people try to give credit to a guy who happened to be at the right

place at the right time. Did he talk about culture change when he first took the job?

Culture change just happens by itself??? The guy from Toronto didn't take the job because he couldn't get rid of people who were known in baseball as incompetent trouble makers. Dan couldn't fire them. He got rid of major league scouting so he could re-assign those guys to positions that he knew they would quit. I am sure Buck has had a lot to do with the culture change as well. But to think it just happened on it's own is pretty unrealistic.

[LookitsPuck]

Sorry that is just short sighted. John Harbaugh was under contract with the Eagles when we hired him, he was allowed to interview because it was a promotion. I would say that worked out pretty well for us in that respect. Scott Coolbaugh whom we just hired to be our hitting coach was under contract with the Rangers as their minor league hitting coordinator. They allowed the Orioles to interview him since it was a "promotion". This is just common practice in all of sports. Period the end. There is no reason to hold back peoples careers. Everyone who hires into those contracts once had a contract like that, they know and understand how hard it is to get the opportunities that get you were they are. That's why it is almost universally accepted. BTW this is not just a MLB or NFL thing. Many, many business have the same philosophy.

It sucks when you lose guys, its great if you get one that helps. In the case of DD, my issue is not with him being offered a promotion, its about the timing and how it played out in the media rather than normal channels.

Short sighted? No, I'm not championing my point being short sighted. I'm fully aware of the delicate system that is in place. And I don't care if it happened with the Ravens or the Orioles, the problem is this: contracts exist for a reason. If a promotion is out there? Tough cookies. Deal with it unless your owner says otherwise. If it applies to players it should apply to management.

You have 4 years remaining on your contract. You brought others into the organization. And now you just want to sashay over to another organization in the same division most likely for little compensation to the owner of your contract? All because it's a promotion? No, that's not how it should work.

That'd be like a relief pitcher making $4mil/year under contract for 4 years wanting to jump ship to another organization willing to give him $10mil/year to start for them. No. You have a contract. Either you're traded for appropriate compensation or you're staying.

[ShaneDawg85]

I believe that he is as good as gone, and I also think that he should be. IMO, you get the best compensation you can get, and then move forward with a GM that wants to be here. As most of you know, I stand by what I have always said, this team was built for the most part by Andy MacPhail. IMO, MacPhail was an excellent GM and that is the guy who righted the ship. I am not really negative towards Duquette, I think he has done a decent job for us. But he is not, and never will be, the greatest GM on earth as some on here think he is. I am ready to move on.

Four fifths of the starting rotation were acquired by Dan Duquette in some way shape or form, plus Gausman who was drafted. Plus, Chris Tillman didn't become a major league starting pitcher until the Duquette administration came in, namely Rick Peterson, Duquette's guy. That is one of the biggest reasons why the Orioles have been so much better the last three seasons, compared to the wretched pitching rotations MacPhail put out for years.

[Dipper9]

Agreed.To say that I will address it at a later time does not help. It sounds like you want to say something but can't. The interview with the Sun did not help this situation. It seemed to add more intrigue.

Its fairly obvious Duke wants the job. As much as I hate the guy, I say Batista for Duke straight up and call it a night.

[Enjoy Terror]

Here's my question: why is it that Jake never performed for us as he did for the Cubs? For me, the issue of Jake's development is a bigger issue than the return when we traded him. I could very easily argue that Buck's hires of Mark Connor and Rick Adair were the problem here.

I can't answer why, but I suspect it's for the same reason that Miguel Gonzalez wasn't anything with the Red Sox, that Chris Davis never panned out with the Rangers, Nate McLouth fell out of favor in Pittsburgh and Atlanta.

I think sometimes new eyes on old problems works, and maybe it's just a change of scenery for some people.

[AdamK]

Well lets say Toronto says .... ok you keep him then. We will start looking elsewhere.

Do you really think that the damage that has been done can be undone?

In a weird way no matter what Toronto does we kinda lose IMO. . .

You can't un-ring a bell.

I agree.

I now think that Toronto didn't know wtf they were doing. I still don't know, and I hope Jon Stewart covers it on his show because he seems capable of skewering inept organizations in an eloquent way.

Ken R. would know though, that tweeting things like he did would set in motion something that was likely to be highly contaminating to our club, and we can't undo that.

IMO, Dan is our guy for 2015 season but it's something that dogs us until an appropriate time for him to leave (after the season). It will be terrible timing then to given the walk years, and the compensation at that time will be tiny, and it will suck.

Can't un-ring a bell.

[Tony-OH]

Have you heard anything about Buck not being a big fan of Brady Anderson?If DD does leave and Brady gets more power could this cause an issue?

I have no information regarding the relationship between Buck and Brady, sorry.

[Tony-OH]

I am guessing part of MacPhail not wanting to come back was Buck's getting decision making into personal decisions. I will say DD has turned the organization culture around pretty well. The guys doing the drafting and the development guys were always blaiming each other before DD got here. I haven't heard anyone complaining about the guys being drafted lately. We have international scouts now and are signing guys. It is too early to tell whether these guys are good signings or not but at lease we are making them and have respected people doing it.

I think Tony is underestimating the turn-around to the organization that has happened in a very short time period. Going from not having any starting pitching to having 6 guys battling for 5 spots is quite a drastic change. And the fact that we have gotten quality major league guys for guys we have drafted and developed speaks volumes.

What in God's name are you talking about? I'm at a loss in how you could possibly misconstrue what I've said so poorly. Then again, it's coming from you so it kinda makes sense.

I have been a huge supporter of Dan and even in this thread I've said I think he's been a great GM. You have taken one point that made about development, one that I've clarified and made me into some anti-Duquette guy. Totally and utterly ridiculous.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Sorry that is just short sighted. John Harbaugh was under contract with the Eagles when we hired him, he was allowed to interview because it was a promotion. I would say that worked out pretty well for us in that respect. Scott Coolbaugh whom we just hired to be our hitting coach was under contract with the Rangers as their minor league hitting coordinator. They allowed the Orioles to interview him since it was a "promotion". This is just common practice in all of sports. Period the end. There is no reason to hold back peoples careers. Everyone who hires into those contracts once had a contract like that, they know and understand how hard it is to get the opportunities that get you were they are. That's why it is almost universally accepted. BTW this is not just a MLB or NFL thing. Many, many business have the same philosophy.

It sucks when you lose guys, its great if you get one that helps. In the case of DD, my issue is not with him being offered a promotion, its about the timing and how it played out in the media rather than normal channels.

The NFL has a codified system in which assistant coaches cannot be blocked from a promotion to HC by their clubs. The MLB has a system in which Toronto has to have our blessing. We did not want to grant permission to Toronto to make our top baseball personnel man their top baseball personnel man. They then went outside of the system and tried to poison our well. Not sure why people want to equate these two situations (Harbaugh/DD). Ravens went through appropriate channels per the rules in place for their sport, while Toronto has flaunted the system that is supposed to be in place.

[Tony-OH]

I don't believe Duke had anything to do with the culture change. That was just coincidental. It cracks me up how people try to give credit to a guy who happened to be at the right

place at the right time. Did he talk about culture change when he first took the job?

Buck is the main reason for the "culture change" around the whole organization. Saying that, Duquette has done a ton in acquiring the right players that have allowed the Orioles to have three winning seasons and two playoff appearances. Despite their differences, they have found a way to make this work and in a perfect world we would not be having this conversation about Duquette potentially moving on.

[WEAVERMAN]

I've kind of stayed out of this for a few reasons, but what the hell, here's my take.

I like and respect Dan Duquette as the GM here and I think he's a big part of our success. I like the fact that he's not afraid to go for it and is willing to move minor league prospects for major league ready talent in an attempt to win year in and year out, not just try to play .500 baseball while hoping every prospect pans out. In addition, I agree with those who say he's under contract and the last time I checked Duquette would expect the Orioles to honor their commitments so I think he should honor his commitment. Afterall, no one forced him to sign that extension.

Now, saying all of that, I'm at the point that it might be best for all parties if Angelos relents and allows Duquette to leave as long as the Orioles receive some kind of significant return from the Blue Jays. Now don't get me wrong, I'd be lying if I didn't want to stick it to the Blue Jays for how they've gone about this especially when you consider the timing of them leaking their interest at the start of the winter meetings. That's just underhanded and although Duquette historically has done very little of significance at the winter meetings while at the Orioles helm, we have no idea how that has affected things this winter. Afterall, if I'm a perspective player and I just watched Duquette allow two of his outfielders to walk out the door and there are rumors about him leaving the organization, maybe I think twice.

Despite this, here's why I think it might be best if he's allowed to leave. First, as much as I respect him for his baseball knowledge, he's not irreplaceable. I think back to when he was hired and no one wanted to come here and work for Angelos and how Angelos decided to take a chance on a guy who had been out of organized baseball. That worked out pretty well. Either way, there are quality baseball men in and out of this organization who just need a chance to show they can lead an organization.

Secondly, speaking of leading an organization, let's not pull any punches. Various sources within the organization have told me there are factions within the warehouse that almost goes back to the Joe Jordan - Dave Stockstill wars. From what I understand, you are either a Duquette guy or a Buck guy. That doesn't mean they don't work together necessarily, but let's not act like the organization is full of harmony. In fact, there's a reason leaks from within the organization have been coming out that some within the organization might not be upset to see Duquette go.

Third, as much as Duquette has done a great job with trying to find talent from all sources, he's a bit of a control freak when it comes to hiring new talent into the organization and doesn't allow others to build their staffs as they see fit. In the minors, there is no cohesion of effort between the coordinators and the local affiliate staffs and players are getting conflicting advice from one level to another or even at the same level when a coordinator shows up out of nowhere and starts tinkering.

From what I was told, one of the problems is that certain guys are Duquette guys and have free reign to do what they want. There has also been some concerns expressed about how hard some of those guys work and if they are causing more problems then they are helping. Considering the lack of development within the system the last few years, it's hard to argue this lack of cohesion has not had a negative affect.

Lastly, why do the Orioles want to keep a guy who wants to leave? Sure, you may point out that Duquette has never said he wants to leave publicly, but what GM doesn't come out and immediately squash these rumors if he wasn't interested? Buck has helped instill a team philosophy throughout the organization. He wants players to be attached to the past, the city and the fans, but what does it say when the GM wants to be elsewhere?

So at the end of the day, I'd like to see the Blue Jays have to pay for poaching the Orioles GM, but I also think it's best for all if Angelos allows it to happen. The organization can only be at it's best when all parties are moving forward in the same manner. The Orioles are lucky to have a guy like Buck Showalter who understands the team concept and it's why so many guys are so loyal to Buck and vice versa. The Orioles deserve a GM with the same mentality.

Very well said, you nailed it.

[WEAVERMAN]

And thanks for the inside information as usual.

[Beast]

Then again if they respect you enough to pay you millions of dollars more per year with likely a great deal more long term job security (considering the guy who held the job before has been there over 30yrs) you may be willing to overlook a few transgressions?

I'm not sure what part of "power struggle" you don't understand. According to the reports from Toronto and elsewhere, the contacts for both Kenny Williams and DD came from Ed Rogers, who holds no current position in the Blue Jays' front office hierarchy. He's clearly trying to shoehorn his way in with this gambit. In the process, he's leaving the guy whose job security you extol to twist slowly in the wind without apparently having the decency to even talk to him about his status. If that situation screams "job security" to you, I don't want you choosing opportunities for me.

[Ruzious]

Duq did a good job here - and certainly worked hard. Either promote him with money and title or let him go. it's ridiculous that this is still unresolved. I don't know if this has hurt them making moves this offseason, but it definitely isn't a positive.