Buck meeting with Angelos today...

[TonySoprano]

Buzz kill

Showalter said he met with Angelos earlier in the day, something he usually does when he visits Baltimore in the offseason.

"I saw Peter," he said. "We talked about some locker room renovations and some stuff we want to do in Sarasota."

source - Baltimore Sun

[weams]

Buzz kill

source - Baltimore Sun

Thus ends the Dan Duquette saga?

If it’s true, you’d sort of think so, wouldn’t you? At least for now. The Orioles certainly aren’t going to let a guy run their club for a whole season with it already set that he’s coming to a rival for 2016, right?

So… it’s over? Probably? Maybe?

I don’t know. Sure, let’s say it is.

http://andrewstoeten.com/2015/01/21/beeston-to-stay-for-2015-new-team-president-for-2016-mccown/

[TonySoprano]

http://andrewstoeten.com/2015/01/21/beeston-to-stay-for-2015-new-team-president-for-2016-mccown/

Maybe McCown has legit sources but I'm highly skeptical.

McCown. We've already had Morosi quote one radio guy and tell us a week ago it was "almost done." To be fair, Morosi couldn't confirm it, but gave it much more visibility by putting it out there anyway.

It's just my observation but it's funny how a lot of false rumors over the year come from radio guys, sometimes ESPN in Chicago or other nonsense.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Report by <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984">@TonyPaul1984</a> says trade for Dan Duquette to join <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BlueJays?src=hash">#BlueJays</a> is "almost done."</p>— Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi) <a href="

">January 14, 2015</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[weams]

Maybe McCown has legit sources but I'm highly skeptical.

Isn't that from the 14th? Before things were resolved.

[TonySoprano]

Isn't that from the 14th? Before things were resolved.

As I said, I'm highly skeptical of the radio sources in general. Yes, the Morosi business was from the 14th.

Roch says, "buzz, buzz"

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>For folks asking, Buck had lengthy meeting with Angelos yesterday. Talks included Duquette/Jays after other matters, of course.</p>— Roch Kubatko (@masnRoch) <a href="

">January 22, 2015</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Matter still isn't closed. If <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/orioles?src=hash">#orioles</a> willing to accept compensation, Duquette can go to Toronto. And would have to be significant return</p>— Roch Kubatko (@masnRoch) <a href="

">January 22, 2015</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[weams]

As I said, I'm highly skeptical of the radio sources in general. Yes, the Morosi business was from the 14th.

Roch says, "buzz, buzz"

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>For folks asking, Buck had lengthy meeting with Angelos yesterday. Talks included Duquette/Jays after other matters, of course.</p>— Roch Kubatko (@masnRoch) <a href="

">January 22, 2015</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Matter still isn't closed. If <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/orioles?src=hash">#orioles</a> willing to accept compensation, Duquette can go to Toronto. And would have to be significant return</p>— Roch Kubatko (@masnRoch) <a href="

">January 22, 2015</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Roch is a nice guy Of Course he's wrong occasionally. Like Markakis.

[Stotle]

I believe there is no transaction. That is my belief.

Probably right, I'd think. If Baltimore truly wants an impactful package I doubt 1) Toronto will give it, and 2) that MLB and every other team would be thrilled with the new precedent set.

[Frobby]

Probably right, I'd think. If Baltimore truly wants an impactful package I doubt 1) Toronto will give it, and 2) that MLB and every other team would be thrilled with the new precedent set.

We can all debate what "impactful" means. However, as to precedent, this is a potential team CEO we are talking about, not a clubhouse boy. I take your point that the fact that he has four years left on his deal is irrelevant to his value to the Blue Jays, but it's not irrelevant to the equities of the situation IMO. Moreover, the more I have thought about this, the more significant it is that the team making the request is in our same division. If you can point me to an analogous situation where a GM or manager was let out of a contract to join a division rival, I'm happy to consider it.

[MCO'sFan]

We can all debate what "impactful" means. However, as to precedent, this is a potential team CEO we are talking about, not a clubhouse boy. I take your point that the fact that he has four years left on his deal is irrelevant to his value to the Blue Jays, but it's not irrelevant to the equities of the situation IMO. Moreover, the more I have thought about this, the more significant it is that the team making the request is in our same division. If you can point me to an analogous situation where a GM or manager was let out of a contract to join a division rival, I'm happy to consider it.

I believe John Ferrell was let out of his contract by the Blue Jays to go to Boston

[MCO'sFan]

Toronto Sun had an article that identified Ed Rogers as starting this after a lunch with Randy Levine, Yankees VP, who suggested Duquette and Williams.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/14/rumours-swirl-around-blue-jays-orioles

Soooooo, we can blame the MFY's for this mess

[Stotle]

We can all debate what "impactful" means. However, as to precedent, this is a potential team CEO we are talking about, not a clubhouse boy. I take your point that the fact that he has four years left on his deal is irrelevant to his value to the Blue Jays, but it's not irrelevant to the equities of the situation IMO. Moreover, the more I have thought about this, the more significant it is that the team making the request is in our same division. If you can point me to an analogous situation where a GM or manager was let out of a contract to join a division rival, I'm happy to consider it.

I don't think the divisional aspect matters. Baseball decision makers like rules, comps, and precedent. I don't think anyone is interested in parsing the value of GM from the other league vs another division vs same division. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

As to years on Duquettes contract, Baltimore would need a new GM and would be signing that GM to, what, a three year deal? Those are the facts regardless of whether Duquette had one or four years remaining. I'm not sure how Baltimore's state after Duquette leaves is any worse in one scenario vs the other.

[Frobby]

I believe John Ferrell was let out of his contract by the Blue Jays to go to Boston

You are right about that. That's pretty analogous, and in that case, it didn't even involve a promotion, though it did involve Farrell returning to a team with which he had a very strong connection. The Jays got Mike Aviles, coming off a 2.5 rWAR season and with two years of arbitration left, as compensation, but sent the Red Sox relief pitcher Dave Carpenter, who was waived by the Sox a month later (and subsequently has been a pretty good reliever for Atlanta).

[Frobby]

I don't think the divisional aspect matters. Baseball decision makers like rules, comps, and precedent. I don't think anyone is interested in parsing the value of GM from the other league vs another division vs same division. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

As to years on Duquettes contract, Baltimore would need a new GM and would be signing that GM to, what, a three year deal? Those are the facts regardless of whether Duquette had one or four years remaining. I'm not sure how Baltimore's state after Duquette leaves is any worse in one scenario vs the other.

Does a player who is under team control for four years have more value to his original team than one who is under control for one year? I think it's pretty analogous from the standpoint of the Orioles (not from the Blue Jays' side).

To me, the divisional aspect matters a lot. We play the Blue Jays 18-19 times a year, and here's a guy who knows everything about our team, and knows a lot about what our team does to prepare to play the Blue Jays. It gives them a competitive advantage when we play them, which is tolerable when you play them one or two series a year, but not when you are playing them all the time. And this is a team we are trying to finish ahead of during the regular season so we can go to the playoffs.

[Ohfan67]

I don't think the divisional aspect matters. Baseball decision makers like rules, comps, and precedent. I don't think anyone is interested in parsing the value of GM from the other league vs another division vs same division. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

As to years on Duquettes contract, Baltimore would need a new GM and would be signing that GM to, what, a three year deal? Those are the facts regardless of whether Duquette had one or four years remaining. I'm not sure how Baltimore's state after Duquette leaves is any worse in one scenario vs the other.

We're talking about Peter Angelos here, not a random "baseball decision maker". Angelos is going to use every factoid possible to squeeze as much as he can out of Toronto. It's his MO. And I think he's likely to be incredibly PO'ed about this situation and make this as painful as possible for Toronto. I also think he's stubborn enough to say "no" no matter how much that poisons DD's remaining time in Baltimore. Long-winded way of saying that I think it matters to Angelos and that Angelos will use any and all justifications to negotiate a better deal.

[weams]

We're talking about Peter Angelos here, not a random "baseball decision maker". Angelos is going to use every factoid possible to squeeze as much as he can out of Toronto. It's his MO. And I think he's likely to be incredibly PO'ed about this situation and make this as painful as possible for Toronto. I also think he's stubborn enough to say "no" no matter how much that poisons DD's remaining time in Baltimore. Long-winded way of saying that I think it matters to Angelos and that Angelos will use any and all justifications to negotiate a better deal.

Very, very true.