Where is the tampering charge for the Blue Jays?

[BohKnowsBmore]

As far as proof why not just ask DD if he was contacted directly? I don't think it would that hard to prove anyway.

Considering how public it was should suffice as well, I would think. Just talking about interest in someone under contract, even if not holding formal discussions with them, can considered tampering in most cases as it makes it known of situations outside of their current contract and damages potential internal situations/negotiations (i.e. if the Yankees said publicly, "yep, we would pay Manny Machado $40MM a year if he were a free agent.")

[mdbdotcom]

The Blue Jays tampered, but it would be difficult to prove that their tampering led to any material damage to the Orioles. So, no harm, no foul. If DD had resigned because of their tampering, that would be a different matter. As it is, maybe MLB would fine the Blue Jays for skirting the rules, but there's no reason why the Orioles should be compensated in any way. That being the case, let it go. No sense whining when you're not going to get anything from it and you'll just make your relationship with one of the other owners worse.

[Morgan423]

No sense whining when you're not going to get anything from it and you'll just make your relationship with one of the other owners worse.

But we would be getting something from it... punitive action against Toronto for what they did.

Unless, of course, one feels that it is fine to send the message to Toronto (and by example, to everyone really) that it's totally okay to add this to the playbook as a standard business practice.

[spiritof66]

I didn't follow the discussions of tampering too closely when they were filling up this board. I was, and remain, far more interested in Duquette remaining with the Orioles. But with that issue in the rear-view mirror for 2015, this thread prompted to me to ask what the rules are for tampering with another club's executive.

I reviewed the documents governing the relationships among MLB teams: the Major League Constitution, the Professional Baseball Agreement and the Major League Rules. The only reference to "tampering" that I could find is Major League Rule 3(k):

TAMPERING. To preserve discipline and competition, and to present the enticement of players, coaches, managers and umpires,

there shall be no negotiations or dealings respecting employment

, either present or prospective,

between any player, coach or manager and and any Major or Minor League Club

other than the Club with which the player is under contract, or acceptance of terms, or by which the player is reserved or which has the player on its Negotiation List [omitting some stuff about umpires], unless the Club or baseball employer with which the person is connected shall have, in writing, expressly authorized such negotiations or dealings prior to their commencement.

As my highlighting shows, the tampering rule applies only to players, coaches and managers. So far as I can tell, MLB has no rule against trying to hire away another team's front-office personnel, or otherwise contacting or "tampering" with them, even when they are under contract. I may have missed or forgotten some posts that showed otherwise, but the ones I recall seemed to assume that general managers and their assistants are covered by the same prohibitions that Rule 3(k) imposes for managers and coaches. Unless such a prohibition is extended elsewhere to front-office personnel, that's not the case, and there has been no violation of MLB's rules by the Blue Jays. That may explain the Warehouse's silence on this issue.

[Il BuonO]

If someone more fluent in the legalese wants to correct me, I'm ready to learn. But I think the Blue Jays tampered, potentially seriously interfered with our offseason, and are generally kind of a slimy organization top to bottom. Fans, players, coaches, owners. That's not a legal argument for tampering but that's why I'm so enthusiastic about this.

I hope the Orioles go after them for this garbage.

That's all well and good, but I'm still waiting for your next post about obscure fruit.

I do like the new avatar though. Winning hand or bad beat?

[weams]

I'm likely in the minority here but my gut tells me there will be a negotiated settlement at some point this season. It is obvious Duquette wants to be in Toronto and I would have to think Angelos is smart enough to realize that by letting him go, he will be able to find a suitable replacement - whether it is internal or external - in what is going to be a crucial offseason for this club with all the pending free agents. The other danger I see of keeping the status quo is that you will have a GM who is not totally focused on the business at hand. And in my mind this becomes even more accute when I read recently that Duquette has stopped communicating with Angelos and that Brady Anderson and Buck Showalter are making a majority of the day to day decisions in the front office. Add it all up, and this is a very toxic situation that needs to be resolved sooner than later.

I appreciate your viewpoint but I disagree with your concerns. I think all is well. There is nothing toxic and our GM is as concentrated as is anyone else's.

[Can_of_corn]

That's all well and good, but I'm still waiting for your next post about obscure fruit.

I do like the new avatar though. Winning hand or bad beat?

Looks like he has a tiger by the tail.

[Barnaby Graves]

That's all well and good, but I'm still waiting for your next post about obscure fruit.

I do like the new avatar though. Winning hand or bad beat?

:laughlol:

Last night was a brutal one. Dealer button with AA, lost to AK on 96K-K-2. Flopped a set, by the river there were 4 clubs. Lost 400 big blinds. Maybe I should stop starting my Alex Rodriguezs and try to make money on the Luis Soto's.

But anyway.

I think it's very important to make an example of the Jays, if we have the evidence to do so.

[hoosiers]

I think this enters into the "no harm, no foul" territory, especially in the old boys billionaire club.

Along those lines, if PA did enter into negotiations for DD, then I would think the tampering charges would not apply. I think it would be bad form to make offers/negotiate and then later, after nothing happens, file the charges.

PA to Jays officials - "I think it is poor form to contact my GM without appropriate consent especially as he is under contract for several more years. If you do have serious interest in him, please send me your three best prospects - that's the price and it's not going to change. Otherwise, take your search elsewhere (bugger off)."

[byrdz]

MLB should be the ones who step up and do something about this IMO. Even if it's just to add some new rules. You can't be going after FO personnel during the winter meetings. Just like with players there should be designated times of the season when negotiating is allowed. What's to stop teams from doing this as a tactic every offseason just to disrupt their competitions FO routine? Nothing it appears.

[Stotle]

Is it the Orioles' responsibility to initiate charges? Or is it MLB's? I've wondered this the whole time this has gone on.

If it's ours it is strange it hasn't happened yet.

If it's MLB's responsibility... I ain't holding my breath.

Orioles have to file.

[weams]

Orioles have to file.

Have they? I'd suspect not. The Orioles would not get anything out of it anyway. I suspect they keep it in the back pocket so the Jays don't come 'round no mo'.