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Arbitration -- What the hell are the Orioles doing?


Beef Supreme

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I find it odd that this is the case where the Orioles chose to take a stand. Their odds of winning seemed much better in several of the other cases. I expect the Orioles to lose this case.

At the same time, I doubt De Aza's feelings will be so hurt by what he hears from Russell Smouse that it will impact his performance. It may be that the O's picked this one because De Aza spent the least time with the team so there s no " loyalty premium" for him, unlike the others.

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Whether the O's win or lose the arbitration hearing there is a pretty good chance they come out of the hearing worse off. If De Aza has to sit there and listen to Russell Smouse tear him apart it could affect him greatly. Players have a lot of pride and that can get shattered listening to what the O's think of him. We saw that happen with Rodrigo Lopez.

De Aza is slotted to be the O's LFer and leadoff hitter. There is not good reason to take the risk that comes with putting him through this. A win here for the O's is settling for 5.3m before the hearing.

There appears to be some kind of hard feeling between DD and Barry Praver, De Aza's agent. The whole thing is not worth a 300K risk when the key role that De Aza may play in the 2015 season is considered.

Owners haven't used the attack the player tactic in a decade. They've build a winning record in arbitration by showing the panel that the club's offer is in line with industry standards for a player of similar service time and accomplishments. They only have an hour to state their case and then a half hour to refute the players claims, so wasting time attacking the player is a losing effort.

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Owners haven't used the attack the player tactic in a decade. They've build a winning record in arbitration by showing the panel that the club's offer is in line with industry standards for a player of similar service time and accomplishments. They only have an hour to state their case and then a half hour to refute the players claims, so wasting time attacking the player is a losing effort.

Smouse will not be saying positive things about De Aza. He will talking about his short comings. Doesn't matter what you call it. I doubt De Aza will like what he hears. It may have an affect of De Aza. He has to other players. It not worth the money the O's might save.

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Smouse will not be saying positive things about De Aza. He will talking about his short comings. Doesn't matter what you call it. I doubt De Aza will like what he hears. It may have an affect of De Aza. He has to other players. It not worth the money the O's might save.

He's going to attack his salary request,anything else is a waste of time.

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Can't they avoid going to the hearing with de Aza? Projected at $5.9 MM by MLBTR, his agent is asking $5.65 MM, while the Orioles are offering $5MM. Seems to me that settling is smarter than fighting. I know it's not my money, but I'd bet a diplomatic offer of $5.4 MM, maybe with anothe $50K in incentives, would get the job done. Regardless of whether one likes the player or believes he is overpaid, is it really worth a couple hundred thousand dollars...to salt a wound? Make nice, reach a compromise and start the healing now.

What wound?

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I find it odd that this is the case where the Orioles chose to take a stand. Their odds of winning seemed much better in several of the other cases. I expect the Orioles to lose this case.

At the same time, I doubt De Aza's feelings will be so hurt by what he hears from Russell Smouse that it will impact his performance. It may be that the O's picked this one because De Aza spent the least time with the team so there s no " loyalty premium" for him, unlike the others.

Ah, there is at least one person who also thinks the Orioles will lose the hearing.

I don't know about the "loyalty premium." Considering that the Orioles traded for him, their actions should supersede this being a factor. Plus, it's not like they didn't expect there to be negotiation for a player in his final year of arbitration. But I, too, find this odd and am having trouble understanding the motivation. Is it really about the money? Consider:

(player, player filed, team filed, contract, $ above team offer)

Bud Norris, $10.25 million, $7.5 million, $8.8 million, $1.3 million

Steve Pearce $5.4 million, $2 million, $3.7 million, $1.7 million

Miguel Gonzalez $3.95 million, $2.5 million, $3.275 million, $775,000

Zach Britton $4.2 million, $2.2 million, $3.2 million, $1 million

Ryan Flaherty $1.5 million, $900,000, $1.075 million $175,000

Heck, they gave Matusz an $800,000 raise.

Seems to me that the motivation can't be the money solely. There is little to nothing gained by digging in one's feet when negotiations begin. So the question remains: What is motivating the Orioles to be adamant in refusing to try to reach a compromise? Is de Aza being used as a blocking dummy for Smouse -- a way to keep in practice? Are they trying to create a tough guy image, willing to look unreasonable to players and agents across the league?

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Duquette was pretty clear on the topic. Most arbitration cases that reach a hearing are only over a small amount like this one.

Asked why the Orioles are going to a hearing with De Aza, Duquette replied, "Because we made an offer to him and told him it was the best we were going to make to you. We made it before we exchanged figures. We told him if we have to exchange, we're going to a hearing. It was a file to go. In other words, if you file, we're going."

Going to a hearing carries the risk of creating hard feelings, but Duquette isn't worried.

"No, I find the hearings to be instructive," Duquette said. "It's a 360 review of a player's abilities."

"We made a good offer," Duquette said. "I don't know why it didn't settle. I thought that would settle the case. I'm surprised it didn't frankly."

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Owners haven't used the attack the player tactic in a decade. They've build a winning record in arbitration by showing the panel that the club's offer is in line with industry standards for a player of similar service time and accomplishments. They only have an hour to state their case and then a half hour to refute the players claims, so wasting time attacking the player is a losing effort.

Just curious, have you ever been to one of these hearings? How do you know how tactics have or haven't changed in the last decade?

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Duquette was pretty clear on the topic. Most arbitration cases that reach a hearing are only over a small amount like this one.

Asked why the Orioles are going to a hearing with De Aza, Duquette replied, "Because we made an offer to him and told him it was the best we were going to make to you. We made it before we exchanged figures. We told him if we have to exchange, we're going to a hearing. It was a file to go. In other words, if you file, we're going."

Going to a hearing carries the risk of creating hard feelings, but Duquette isn't worried.

"No, I find the hearings to be instructive," Duquette said. "It's a 360 review of a player's abilities."

"We made a good offer," Duquette said. "I don't know why it didn't settle. I thought that would settle the case. I'm surprised it didn't frankly."

Sounds like he is just being a man of his word.

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Smouse will not be saying positive things about De Aza. He will talking about his short comings. Doesn't matter what you call it. I doubt De Aza will like what he hears. It may have an affect of De Aza. He has to other players. It not worth the money the O's might save.

Do players even go to these hearings? With the little difference between the two figures you'd think he'd let his agent handle it.

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Just curious, have you ever been to one of these hearings? How do you know how tactics have or haven't changed in the last decade?

I think it would be fascinating to attend. But I guess I should keep that to myself or I may end up on Rockies Hangout.

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Duquette was pretty clear on the topic. Most arbitration cases that reach a hearing are only over a small amount like this one.

Asked why the Orioles are going to a hearing with De Aza, Duquette replied, "Because we made an offer to him and told him it was the best we were going to make to you. We made it before we exchanged figures. We told him if we have to exchange, we're going to a hearing. It was a file to go. In other words, if you file, we're going."

Going to a hearing carries the risk of creating hard feelings, but Duquette isn't worried.

"No, I find the hearings to be instructive," Duquette said. "It's a 360 review of a player's abilities."

"We made a good offer," Duquette said. "I don't know why it didn't settle. I thought that would settle the case. I'm surprised it didn't frankly."

The Orioles can't settle or they'd be seen as caving in. Looks like De Aza's agent decided to submit a higher number that he thinks will win in arbitration

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