Who is the starting 2B on Opening Day?

[Beef Supreme]

Is the question who starts at 2B on opening day, who gets the majority of starts for the season or who has the best year?

[Beef Supreme]

Flaherty starts opening day vs. Cobb

Cabrera has the best year

Schoop gets the most starts at 2B

Now, which one do I vote for?

[Sanfran327]

The Orioles just made their largest investment this offseason on Cabrera.

You can't honestly say they are 100% committed to Schoop. IMO I am not saying Schoop is just handed the job, but now he might have some pressure on his back in ST.

I don't know a lot about Cabrera, but I do wonder if his signing puts more pressure on Schoop or Flaherty? How is Cabrera's defense? Is he as versatile as Flaherty? If so, it could be more of a battle for the utility spot than the starting 2b job.

[Beef Supreme]

I don't know a lot about Cabrera, but I do wonder if his signing puts more pressure on Schoop or Flaherty? How is Cabrera's defense? Is he as versatile as Flaherty? If so, it could be more of a battle for the utility spot than the starting 2b job.

Cabrera is a shortsop. Flaherty has not handled SS well. You'd trust Cabrera to play second, but not Flaherty playing short. And if the Orioles are serious about using Pearce to backup at thirdbase, they won't need Flaherty for that role.

[Scotto]

Has Cabrera figured out how to steal 1st base. I appreciate his elite baserunning skills, but I don't see how his poor hitting translates to being a starter.

This. And all the talk about him being the leadoff. Leadoff should be someone that gets on at a fairly good rate,

speed alone cannot be a factor.

[BohKnowsBmore]

This. And all the talk about him being the leadoff. Leadoff should be someone that gets on at a fairly good rate,

speed alone cannot be a factor.

Just two seasons ago, he had an OBP of .355. He has shown an ability to get on at a pretty good rate over the course of his career.

[Frobby]

I'm going to use this thread to pose a hypothetical. Cabrera is a .652 OPS career hitter (.248/.319/.333), capable of stealing a base every 3-4 games at a 78% success rate. Let's use the base assumption that he'll hit at that level in 2015. Schoop was a .598 OPS hitter last year, but lets assume he ramps it up 54 points as a sophomore and would hit roughly .230/.266/.386, with a homer every 7-8 games or so. Interestingly, Ryan Flaherty also is a .652 OPS career hitter, .221/.283/.369 and he homers about once every 12 games.

Assuming more or less equivalent defense, which flavor of .650ish hitter would you prefer to get the playing time -- the guy with the highest OBP, least power and most speed, the guy with the lowest OBP but the most power, or the in-betweenish guy?

I want to stress, this is purely hypothetical. I think either Cabrera or Schoop might be able to outdo .650 by a good margin, but for my question, assume they don't.

[Beef Supreme]

I'm going to use this thread to pose a hypothetical. Cabrera is a .652 OPS career hitter (.248/.319/.333), capable of stealing a base every 3-4 games at a 78% success rate. Let's use the base assumption that he'll hit at that level in 2015. Schoop was a .598 OPS hitter last year, but lets assume he ramps it up 54 points as a sophomore and would hit roughly .230/.266/.386, with a homer every 7-8 games or so. Interestingly, Ryan Flaherty also is a .652 OPS career hitter, .221/.283/.369 and he homers about once every 12 games.

Assuming more or less equivalent defense, which flavor of .650ish hitter would you prefer to get the playing time -- the guy with the highest OBP, least power and most speed, the guy with the lowest OBP but the most power, or the in-betweenish guy?

I want to stress, this is purely hypothetical. I think either Cabrera or Schoop might be able to outdo .650 by a good margin, but for my question, assume they don't.

I will choose "the guy with the highest OBP, least power and most speed" mostly because the Orioles don't have that type of player. it could help balance the lineup of power/no speed/not great-OBA guys

[Aristotelian]

I would go with speed too because SBs and baserunning aren't factored into OPS. If they OPS the same but Cabrera adds another 40-45 bases between SBs and running the bases, that's worth another 60-75 points of OPS. If their OPS and defense are the same, I will take the guy who also brings a speed dimension.

[Beef Supreme]

Has Cabrera figured out how to steal 1st base. I appreciate his elite baserunning skills, but I don't see how his poor hitting translates to being a starter.

You sorta can steal first -- when your speed forces a misplayed ball or gets you on base on a close play that results in the play being scored an error.

I've always thought that getting on base by error should count towards a batter's OBA rather than against it.

[MurphDogg]

You sorta can steal first -- when your speed forces an misplayed ball or gets you on base on a close plays that results in the play being scored an error.

I've always thought that getting on base by error should count towards a batter's OBA rather than against it.

It does bother me that this is a difficult statistic to find. Also I wish you could find a double play rate statistic as a batter, that is the percentage of ground balls where a force is made at second base and a double play is completed vs only getting the force at second. GIDP is a statistic, but I am more interested in the ratio, as opportunities are a factor. Obviously speed is far from the only factor in these two instances, but I am curious about the figures.

[FanAddict]

I will choose "the guy with the highest OBP, least power and most speed" mostly because the Orioles don't have that type of player. it could help balance the lineup of power/no speed/not great-OBA guys

I'd choose Schoop because I still think there is some projectability left with his bat. If he can pick his OBP up several points, with that power, he could be a very formidable hitter for us. Remember he's only 22.

However, if it turns out that the O's go with Cabrera, as you prefer, I'd like to see them do something bold and trade Schoop now for the best return we can get. I think if you send Schoop back to AAA, with that park in Norfolk, you can pretty much kiss him hitting his way back to BMORE goodbye. It's not just the park but also the potential stunted development with the YoYo'ing, appearance of org loosing confidence in him, etc.

My concern here is that perhaps the Cabrera route works out fine, but we're not left with much in the long haul if he puts up a fine season and Schoop regresses or becomes a busted prospect. I know many think Schoop should have to earn it, and I'm not suggesting otherwise, but I'd much prefer to have Schoop work out for us, solving the 2b problem for us for the foreseeable future.

[Camden_yardbird]

Cabrera, but only because Schoop is playing third. Manny not ready to start the season.

[Beef Supreme]

I'd choose Schoop because I still think there is some projectability left with his bat. If he can pick his OBP up several points, with that power, he could be a very formidable hitter for us. Remember he's only 22.

However, if it turns out that the O's go with Cabrera, as you prefer, I'd like to see them do something bold and trade Schoop now for the best return we can get. I think if you send Schoop back to AAA, with that park in Norfolk, you can pretty much kiss him hitting his way back to BMORE goodbye. It's not just the park but also the potential stunted development with the YoYo'ing, appearance of org loosing confidence in him, etc.

My concern here is that perhaps the Cabrera route works out fine, but we're not left with much in the long haul if he puts up a fine season and Schoop regresses or becomes a busted prospect. I know many think Schoop should have to earn it, and I'm not suggesting otherwise, but I'd much prefer to have Schoop work out for us, solving the 2b problem for us for the foreseeable future.

Oh, I haven't forgotten that Schoop is 22. I think that we can't expect a big upturn this season in BA and OBA. I think that's more likely going to show next year, rather than this one. But I am not worried about him becoming a busted prospect if he gets sent down for part of this season. And I do not want to trade him, no sir. Unless, the offer is too good to pass up (whatever that may be).

[Frobby]

It does bother me that this is a difficult statistic to find. Also I wish you could find a double play rate statistic as a batter, that is the percentage of ground balls where a force is made at second base and a double play is completed vs only getting the force at second. GIDP is a statistic, but I am more interested in the ratio, as opportunities are a factor. Obviously speed is far from the only factor in these two instances, but I am curious about the figures.

Well, you can find the DP rate that is GIDP as a percentage of AB where a DP is in order, but it won't tell you whether the non-DP's were a result of hits, fly outs, force plays where the batter beat the relay throw, strikeouts, etc. Still, it's better than nothing. Cabrera's career rate is 8%, compared to league average 11%. Last year, though, it was very high, 17%. Maybe due to the hamstring issues, or just a bad result in a small sample. Cabrera was a pretty awful offensive player last year all the way around.