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Camden Depot: Matt is Not Needed as a DH

weams

By weams
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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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http://camdendepot.blogspot.com/2015/03/wieters-isnt-needed-at-dh.html

Tommy John surgery is rare for position players, let alone catchers, and Wieters's value could very well drop. It's often repeated that Wieters was on his way to a career year offensively before he got hurt last season. And with a .308/.339/.500 line (134 wRC+) in 112 plate appearances, he may have been. Now Wieters has to overcome elbow issues while also trying to rekindle what was working for him pre-injury in 2014. The O's are counting on bounce-back years from some key players; Wieters is certainly one of them. But he should be given as much time as possible to recover, and his bat isn't needed in the lineup at DH
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Beef Supreme Hangout Veteran Council

Beef Supreme

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I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that hitters perform worse after Tommy John surgery.

There is evidence both ways. Consider: Carl Crawford, Rocco Baldelli, Brad Hawpe. Nobody knows that any player will return to form until they actually do, so it's fair to say that the jury is out on MW.

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MurphDogg Hangout Grand Counsel

MurphDogg

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There is evidence both ways. Consider: Carl Crawford, Rocco Baldelli, Brad Hawpe. Nobody knows that any player will return to form until they actually do, so it's fair to say that the jury is out on MW.

Huh? Rocco Baldelli had a metabolic disorder that led to all kinds of problems, the Tommy John surgery was largely irrelevant to his issues. Carl Crawford's worst season came the year before the Tommy John surgery, he has been basically the same player after the surgery as he was before the surgery except those two freak years in 2010 and 2011 (one positive and one negative), Brad Hawpe's career was already in the toilet a year before the surgery, the Rockies released him a year before he had the surgery.

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Beef Supreme Hangout Veteran Council

Beef Supreme

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Huh? Rocco Baldelli had a metabolic disorder that led to all kinds of problems, the Tommy John surgery was largely irrelevant to his issues. Carl Crawford's worst season came the year before the Tommy John surgery, he has been basically the same player after the surgery as he was before the surgery except those two freak years in 2010 and 2011 (one positive and one negative), Brad Hawpe's career was already in the toilet a year before the surgery, the Rockies released him a year before he had the surgery.

You never know what happens as a result of surgery. There is no guarantee.

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CaptainRedbeard All-Star

CaptainRedbeard

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I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that hitters perform worse after Tommy John surgery.

Actually, there is some evidence, although it's difficult to ascertain the magnitude of the effect because the sample size is small. But I think it's enough to cast some doubt on the conventional belief that Tommy John surgery doesn't affect hitters.

http://www.fangraphs.com/community/the-effects-of-tommy-john-surgery-on-batters/

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MurphDogg Hangout Grand Counsel

MurphDogg

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Actually, there is some evidence, although it's difficult to ascertain the magnitude of the effect because the sample size is small. But I think it's enough to cast some doubt on the conventional belief that Tommy John surgery doesn't affect hitters.

http://www.fangraphs.com/community/the-effects-of-tommy-john-surgery-on-batters/

The average age of the players surgeries in this "study" was 28.8. Read the comments on the post. You have to look at a control group of similarly aged players to come to a conclusion that there is evidence. And Rocco Baldelli is clearly an outlier, his issues were separate from Tommy John surgery.

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Beef Supreme Hangout Veteran Council

Beef Supreme

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The average age of the players surgeries in this "study" was 28.8. Read the comments on the post. You have to look at a control group of similarly aged players to come to a conclusion that there is evidence. And Rocco Baldelli is clearly an outlier, his issues were separate from Tommy John surgery.

Evidence is not the same as proof.

Wieters is 28.3 years of age.

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scOtt Hangout Grand Counsel

scOtt

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I would just like to say...

It's often repeated that Wieters was on his way to a career year offensively before he got hurt last season.

Matt was NOT on his way to a career year last year! :rolleyestf: He was just off to a hot start. To even mention this makes whomever sportswriter look like an idiot. Matt will (I hope) be Matt. His career averages.

.257/.320/.423/.743

Damn good for a switch hitting C. Doubt he puts up even those numbers. Buh bye and thanks for the pick in 2016. :new_wave:

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Beef Supreme Hangout Veteran Council

Beef Supreme

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Huh? Rocco Baldelli had a metabolic disorder that led to all kinds of problems, the Tommy John surgery was largely irrelevant to his issues. Carl Crawford's worst season came the year before the Tommy John surgery, he has been basically the same player after the surgery as he was before the surgery except those two freak years in 2010 and 2011 (one positive and one negative), Brad Hawpe's career was already in the toilet a year before the surgery, the Rockies released him a year before he had the surgery.

Crawford has lost his power post-surgery.

From the last fully healthy year to the year in which they first lost time to the elbow injury, Tommy John position players saw a drop of almost 30 points in their weighted on-base average. Despite being another year older, those players then gained five points of wOBA back in their first season back. The healthy tendon seemingly put them back on track at the plate, even if they didn't recapture all of their former glory. -Eno Sarris
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