Matusz, de Aza, McFarland, Lavarnway

[weams]

OK, I've gone straight to the source: the rules themselves. I think they support your position that a player must pass through waivers before he is offered back to the original team. The procedure is found in Rule 6(a):

http://bizofbaseball.com/docs/MajorLeagueRules-2008.pdf

My only caveat is this is the version that existed in 2008. I can't find a current version.

This set of support has been argued here several times before. I think the definitive "Cots Contract" version is what most are agreeing to be factual. And unless someone else, like yourself, takes up my former view...I remain silent on the issue.

[Crazysilver03]

Well, as I said before, I could be wrong, but I don't think so. Certainly nothing that anyone has posted indicates anything that would make me think that the Cots paragraph is incorrect.

A trade does not put a player that is not on the original team's 40 man roster on the acquiring team's 40 man roater. If that were the case, there would be far fewer trades of minor league players.40 man roster

But the Rule 5 draft is different than trading minor leaguers. If they trade for him, he remains on the 40 man.

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[Number5]

OK, I've gone straight to the source: the rules themselves. I think they support your position that a player must pass through waivers before he is offered back to the original team. The procedure is found in Rule 6(a):

http://bizofbaseball.com/docs/MajorLeagueRules-2008.pdf

My only caveat is this is the version that existed in 2008. I can't find a current version.

Thank you. This has been my understanding.

[Number5]

But the Rule 5 draft is different than trading minor leaguers. If they trade for him, he remains on the 40 man.

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He has just passed thru waivers at this point. The waiver period works to the player's benefit, as any team that claims him would then have the same rule 5 requirements to keep him on the 25 man roster. The entire purpose of such a trade is to send him to the minors. There is no other reason for the trade. Is there?

He has passed thru waivers and can be outrighted (or released). If the team wants to keep him on the 40 man and option him, they can do so, but have no requirement to do so, that I can see.

[weams]

He has just passed thru waivers at this point. The waiver period works to the player's benefit, as any team that claims him would then have the same rule 5 requirements to keep him on the 25 man roster. The entire purpose of such a trade is to send him to the minors. There is no other reason for the trade. Is there?

He has passed thru waivers and can be outrighted (or released). If the team wants to keep him on the 40 man and option him, they can do so, but have no requirement to do so, that I can see.

Am told definitively that you are correct. Must pass through waivers. 100 percent certain now.

[mdbdotcom]

Am told definitively that you are correct. Must pass through waivers. 100 percent certain now.

Bravo Number5.

[wildcard]

OK, I've gone straight to the source: the rules themselves. I think they support your position that a player must pass through waivers before he is offered back to the original team. The procedure is found in Rule 6(a):

http://bizofbaseball.com/docs/MajorLeagueRules-2008.pdf

My only caveat is this is the version that existed in 2008. I can't find a current version.

This is addressing the wrong issue IMO. The O's would be doing a major league trade to acquire Verrett from the Mets. Major League club to Major league club. There is no attempt to send Verrett to the minors while he has anything to do with the Mets or while he is a Rule 5 player.

Once the trade is complete then Verrett is a Orioles player on the 40 man roster with options. At that point the O's would use the option to since him to the minors.

A major league club can trade a player on the major league roster any time during the off season clear up until July 31st at 5 pm EST without putting him through waivers. That is true for a Rule 5 players also. However, his restriction to stay in the majors goes with him if he is traded to a third club.

Waivers are involved if that Rule 5 player is returned. He has to pass through waivers before he can go back to his original team.

Frobby, the current Major League Rules are on Cot's Contract just above the Transaction Glossary.

[Number5]

This is addressing the wrong issue IMO. The O's would be doing a major league trade to acquire Verrett from the Mets. Major League club to Major league club. There is no attempt to send Verrett to the minors while he has anything to do with the Mets or while he is a Rule 5 player.

Once the trade is complete then Verrett is a Orioles player on the 40 man roster with options. At that point the O's would use the option to since him to the minors.

A major league club can trade a player on the major league roster any time during the off season clear up until July 31st at 5 pm EST without putting him through waivers. That is true for a Rule 5 players also. However, his restriction to stay in the majors goes with him if he is traded to a third club.

Waivers are involved if that Rule 5 player is returned. He has to pass through waivers before he can go back to his original team.

Frobby, the current Major League Rules are on Cot's Contract just above the Transaction Glossary.

The player was never on the Mets 40 man roster. If sent back, he is a minor league player, and not on the 40 man roster. If traded in lieu of sending him back, the sole purpose of the trade is quite obviously to send him to the minor leagues.

[weams]

Bravo Number5.

It was really hard for me to get this through my head. And I found sources like Frobby did that always supported my inaccuracy.

[mdbdotcom]

It was really hard for me to get this through my head. And I found sources like Frobby did that always supported my inaccuracy.

If we can work out a trade, we very well might keep one of the Rule 5 guys as the 25th player on opening day to make it unlikely he is claimed off waivers the next day.

[wildcard]

The player was never on the Mets 40 man roster. If sent back, he is a minor league player, and not on the 40 man roster. If traded in lieu of sending him back, the sole purpose of the trade is quite obviously to send him to the minor leagues.

I agree and the Mets organization is trading the rights to that minor league player to the O's where he is on the major league roster. There is no attempt by the O's to send him to the minors until he is no longer a Rule 5 player and is on the O's major league roster. Then he can be optioned.

[Number5]

I agree and the Mets organization is trading the rights to that minor league player to the O's where he is on the major league roster. There is no attempt by the O's to send him to the minors until he is no longer a Rule 5 player and is on the O's major league roster. Then he can be optioned.

As we have now determined, the player must pass thru outright waivers. If you think about it, you will see that if a trade is being worked in lieu of his being sent back to the original team after passing thru waivers, the acquiring team is trading for the payer (and his status) from the originating team.

[weams]

As we have now determined, the player must pass thru outright waivers. If you think about it, you will see that if a trade is being worked in lieu of his being sent back to the original team after passing thru waivers, the acquiring team is trading for the payer (and his status) from the originating team.

It no longer has any rule 5 implications. Correct. And as that player is on a 40 man roster, he remains so. To take him off would require him to pass through again without rule 5 restriction.

[wildcard]

As we have now determined, the player must pass thru outright waivers. If you think about it, you will see that if a trade is being worked in lieu of his being sent back to the original team after passing thru waivers, the acquiring team is trading for the payer (and his status) from the originating team.

I don't agree. There are no waivers needed to trade for a player on the 40 man roster during the off season up until July 31st. Show me one Rule that says there is.

The Major League Rules on right there on Cots Contracts.

[weams]

I don't agree. There are no waivers needed to trade for a player on the 40 man roster during the off season up until July 31st. Show me one Rule that says there is.

The Major League Rules on right there on Cots Contracts.

I was not clear. If the team that traded for the player then wished to remove him from the 40 man roster, waivers would have to be asked. Without restriction.