2/23 Terps vs. Canes/ Gary Williams' status debate

[BaltimoreTerp]

What if Gary gets caught in a recruiting scandal and we lose out the rest of the season?

Yeah, because the chances of that is the same.

[BaltimoreTerp]

What happens of James Gist channels Joe Smith?

What happens if Jason McAlpin becomex Xree Hipp?

What happens if Duane Simpkins becomes a parking ticket enforcer?

Dude, he's the reason I fell in love with Maryland basketball!

[JohnD]

Sucks he's persona non grata in College Park anymore, huh? Dammit, and I spelled it wrong. It's Exree.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Sucks he's persona non grata in College Park anymore, huh? Dammit, and I spelled it wrong. It's Exree.

Yeah.

My first Maryland game was the Towson game at the Arena Christmas week of 1992, where he scored 35 points.

I will remember until the day I die that announcer yelling "EXREEEEEEEEEEEEE HIPP!" every time he scored.

[bryanman8]

I am still waiting for why Bryan was quiet when the Terps were winning up until last week.

Is this really a difficult concept for you? I've said all season long that Gary had to make the tournament this year or he should be fired. Obviously, when he lost to American and Ohio, it looked like I would be right, so I started bringing it up again. However, I always kept the same ultimatum: turn it around and make the tourney and you can stay. So when it looked like things were headed in the right direction, what the hell do you want me to say? I was happy. I'm an MD fan. I used to love Gary and pray that we still make the tourney. Now though, things have completely fallen apart again. This team is a mess. And, barring a miraculous inspirational comeback by the players, it looks like we're gonna miss the tourney. Thus, Gary should go. It's really quite simple.

And Mackus, quit with the BS about me changing my stance and latching onto popular viewpoints. Name me one time I've done that. I've always said Gary is an awful recruiter. You cannot seriously believe he isn't. That's his biggest problem and one that I haven't jumped on as much since it's already been beaten to death and everyone with a brain knows its true. What I'm noticing more lately is that his system has gone to hell. In spite of all his recruiting woes, it is possible, believe it or not, to have 5 somewhat talented players on the team. It's still lame. Most teams go about 10 deep and we can't even find a 6th man because of how little talent he recruited. He did manage to find 5 good ones though that are MORE THAN CAPABLE of at least MAKING THE TOURNAMENT. This is the University of Maryland for God's sakes. Where the hell have our standards gone? Maybe we have Gary to thank for raising those standards, but do you think anyone in the nation really thought that after winning a national championship this school would miss the tourney 3 out of 4 years?!!! All I said was that, although this team isn't deep and certainly not capable of making a final 4 run or anything like that, the talent of the starting 5 should have been enough to at least make the NCAA tournament. I don't think I'm asking too much. I've already said that I think he found an immensely talented body in Gist that he hasn't been able to cultivate at all and that his system creates no open shots for anyone and we get no looks from three for the guys that can shoot them like Hayes. He still did a piss-poor job of recruiting despite finding an OK starting five. You understand how that's possible now? Ideally, we would be making a run at the elite 8. Instead, we're clawing and clawing to try and be one of the last couple teams selected into the tournament. And it's probably not going to happen.

Again, if we go out and win these last 3 and make it, I'll be quiet again, SG, because I've been consistent the whole time: make the tourney and Gary can stay. Then hopefully if he does that we can raise next year's standards to the Sweet 16 or something. If you won't even ask your national-championship winning coach to get you to the tourney more than once every 4 years, your standards are just way too low and you're blinded by Gary's prior successes.

[Fairfax Bird]

. Now though, things have completely fallen apart again. This team is a mess. And, barring a miraculous inspirational comeback by the players, it looks like we're gonna miss the tourney. Thus, Gary should go. It's really quite simple.

And Mackus, quit with the BS about me changing my stance and latching onto popular viewpoints. Name me one time I've done that. I've always said Gary is an awful recruiter. You cannot seriously believe he isn't. That's his biggest problem and one that I haven't jumped on as much since it's already been beaten to death and everyone with a brain knows its true.

Wow, lose two games in the ACC and you have completely fallen apart.

This bolded point sounds surprisingly similar to the arguments I hear in my high school students' position papers, that is until I teach them about perspective.

[bryanman8]

Wow, lose two games in the ACC and you have completely fallen apart.

This bolded point sounds surprisingly similar to the arguments I hear in my high school students' position papers, that is until I teach them about perspective.

Two games in the ACC? Jesus, you need to OPEN YOUR EYES. What exactly have we done good this season? Beat UNC. Great. Isn't that like our only win against a top 50 team? That's pathetic.

In addition, so is losing to:

Missouri

VCU

OHIO

AMERICAN

VaTech TWICE

Miami

This season has been beyond awful. You think only the last two games are the problem? This season was poor enough already. We were just treading water and had an easy run to the tourney anyway because of the one great win at UNC and an easy schedule in the middle that allowed us to build up some momentum. Instead, we choked completely, and dropped two straight incredibly important games.

And Gary is an awful recruiter. Again, can anyone really debate that? He's taken a great facility and a great area and given us Eric Hayes and Dave Neal to show for it. Why did you quote that part, exactly?

Again, a few days ago, it was unthinkable to think we wouldn't make the tourney because we had an easy stretch of 5 games where we could afford to blow one or maybe two and still make it. Our destiny was in our own hands. And we choked.

[Fairfax Bird]

And Gary is an awful recruiter. Again, can anyone really debate that? He's taken a great facility and a great area and given us Eric Hayes and Dave Neal to show for it. Why did you quote that part, exactly?

Again, a few days ago, it was unthinkable to think we wouldn't make the tourney because we had an easy stretch of 5 games where we could afford to blow one or maybe two and still make it. Our destiny was in our own hands. And we choked.

Just as easily as we lost the last 2 we can win the next 3 and basically be a lock for the tourney. You are right, we have chocked, but the season isn't over.

Williams has never been a big recruiter of players who will check out early, so I gues your right he is an aweful recruiter. I mean to recruit players who won a national championship, what a sin. Oh and it is totally appropriate to say that he is a terrible recruiter and then point to a guy who is the 8th best player on the team. As for Hayes, I think he is a point guard and probably a pretty decent one. Yes, he lacks quickness, but Steve Blake wasn't too quick either and he had a pretty decent career. The truth is the players have let this slide occur. Osby seems to have lost some confidence, Gist has gone invisible on us and Milbourne is what he is, a very good 5th scorer and decent defender, but not a force. Vasquez is back to playing out of control and making bad decisions. This is all Williams fault I assure you, just haven't figured out how yet.

BTW the only pathetic loss is American. Miami and VTech have our number and those are bad losses. So is the Ohio loss, but they showed yesterday that they are a pretty darn good team (handled G. Mason in a bracket buster). Missouri was better early than they are now (lots of problems on the team) and VCU is pretty darn good.

[Sports Guy]

Is this really a difficult concept for you? I've said all season long that Gary had to make the tournament this year or he should be fired. Obviously, when he lost to American and Ohio, it looked like I would be right, so I started bringing it up again. However, I always kept the same ultimatum: turn it around and make the tourney and you can stay. So when it looked like things were headed in the right direction, what the hell do you want me to say? I was happy. I'm an MD fan. I used to love Gary and pray that we still make the tourney. Now though, things have completely fallen apart again. This team is a mess. And, barring a miraculous inspirational comeback by the players, it looks like we're gonna miss the tourney. Thus, Gary should go. It's really quite simple.

And Mackus, quit with the BS about me changing my stance and latching onto popular viewpoints. Name me one time I've done that. I've always said Gary is an awful recruiter. You cannot seriously believe he isn't. That's his biggest problem and one that I haven't jumped on as much since it's already been beaten to death and everyone with a brain knows its true. What I'm noticing more lately is that his system has gone to hell. In spite of all his recruiting woes, it is possible, believe it or not, to have 5 somewhat talented players on the team. It's still lame. Most teams go about 10 deep and we can't even find a 6th man because of how little talent he recruited. He did manage to find 5 good ones though that are MORE THAN CAPABLE of at least MAKING THE TOURNAMENT. This is the University of Maryland for God's sakes. Where the hell have our standards gone? Maybe we have Gary to thank for raising those standards, but do you think anyone in the nation really thought that after winning a national championship this school would miss the tourney 3 out of 4 years?!!! All I said was that, although this team isn't deep and certainly not capable of making a final 4 run or anything like that, the talent of the starting 5 should have been enough to at least make the NCAA tournament. I don't think I'm asking too much. I've already said that I think he found an immensely talented body in Gist that he hasn't been able to cultivate at all and that his system creates no open shots for anyone and we get no looks from three for the guys that can shoot them like Hayes. He still did a piss-poor job of recruiting despite finding an OK starting five. You understand how that's possible now? Ideally, we would be making a run at the elite 8. Instead, we're clawing and clawing to try and be one of the last couple teams selected into the tournament. And it's probably not going to happen.

Again, if we go out and win these last 3 and make it, I'll be quiet again, SG, because I've been consistent the whole time: make the tourney and Gary can stay. Then hopefully if he does that we can raise next year's standards to the Sweet 16 or something. If you won't even ask your national-championship winning coach to get you to the tourney more than once every 4 years, your standards are just way too low and you're blinded by Gary's prior successes.

What is difficult for me is to read your whiny, unknowledgable, bandwagon posts all the time.

When your Skins sucked, you were quiet...When they were good, you bragged.

When the Terps are winning, you shut up..When they lose 2 games(1 of which is not a bad loss), you start up with your bs again.

Yes, you have called for Gary's head all year but you only did it when they haven't played well.

Why didn't you start a "Should Gary be fired" poll after they beat UNC or when they were 7-4 in the ACC?

I think people that complain about the recruiting have reason to complain...He should have capitalized on the title more than he did.

OTOH, Gary has won with guys who weren't highly touted and his more highly touted recruits have been busts..Maybe that's his fault...Maybe he just deals with kids better who feel they have to work at it and not have it handed to them? I don't know but if I were a Terps fan, i would rather find a lot more Blake's and Dixon's than Garrison's and Morris's.

[Mackus]

And Mackus, quit with the BS about me changing my stance and latching onto popular viewpoints. Name me one time I've done that.

I clearly just stated a time when you changed your stance.

Earlier in this thread you said we have great talent. All 5 of our starters will play in the NBA. Now he's a terrible recruiter. Those two statements are inherently contradictory.

You don't give Gary Williams an ultimatum. In all honesty, he can never be fired, IMO. In the incredibly unlikely scenario that we continue to be a 50% NCAA/NIT team for the next 4-6 seasons, then it would be justified from a basketball standpoint, but still not from a "best thing for the program" standpoint, and you can be damn sure that Gary would set the wheels in motion for him to leave on his own terms long before things got to that point.

[Mackus]

Two games in the ACC? Jesus, you need to OPEN YOUR EYES. What exactly have we done good this season? Beat UNC. Great. Isn't that like our only win against a top 50 team? That's pathetic.

We were 7-4 and in 3rd place in the ACC before this week, after being picked to finish much lower and starting the season terribly. That's pretty impressive.

These last two losses have certainly reopened the can of worms of if we're a worthy NCAA team, but we've done a lot more than just beat UNC and are still in position to make the tournament.

[bryanman8]

What is difficult for me is to read your whiny, unknowledgable, bandwagon posts all the time.

When your Skins sucked, you were quiet...When they were good, you bragged.

When the Terps are winning, you shut up..When they lose 2 games(1 of which is not a bad loss), you start up with your bs again.

Yes, you have called for Gary's head all year but you only did it when they haven't played well.

Why didn't you start a "Should Gary be fired" poll after they beat UNC or when they were 7-4 in the ACC?

I think people that complain about the recruiting have reason to complain...He should have capitalized on the title more than he did.

OTOH, Gary has won with guys who weren't highly touted and his more highly touted recruits have been busts..Maybe that's his fault...Maybe he just deals with kids better who feel they have to work at it and not have it handed to them? I don't know but if I were a Terps fan, i would rather find a lot more Blake's and Dixon's than Garrison's and Morris's.

?????

Are you serious?

I'm whiny because I'm upset about the state of my sports teams? Really? I'm sure it's nothing to be upset over when the Skins have the largest payroll in the NFL and are still largely incompetent, or that the Terps have made the NITs 3/4 years after winning a NC. I'm sure you can really empathize being a Duke fan. It's worth noting also that you were an insane Ravens' homer all season long and wouldn't accept the fact that they sucked until about week 17.

Again, this is not a difficult concept: my position ALL ALONG was to give Gary until the end of the season. If he made the tourney, he can stay, if he didn't, he goes. I talked about it more obviously after American and Ohio than I would after our one good win in UNC. Now, though, it's extremely relevant again. The collapse is almost complete and we're almost back to the NITs for the 3rd time in 4 years. Thus, I figured it was time to bring it up for discussion again, being that we're about where I predicted--the season would end with us on the outside looking in again.

Again, Gary's legacy rests with Blake and Dixon. Those two are gone. Show me any player he's had serious success with since then. All of his highly touted guys have been busts and all of his lowly-touted, "coachable, 4-year guys" have been busts. He has chosen to continue to recruit lower guys despite the fact that it's clearly not working out for him anymore and guys like Eric Hayes cannot be productive SGs in the ACC and Dave Neal productive 6th or 7th men.

[Sports Guy]

?????

Are you serious?

I'm whiny because I'm upset about the state of my sports teams? Really? I'm sure it's nothing to be upset over when the Skins have the largest payroll in the NFL and are still largely incompetent, or that the Terps have made the NITs 3/4 years after winning a NC. I'm sure you can really empathize being a Duke fan. It's worth noting also that you were an insane Ravens' homer all season long and wouldn't accept the fact that they sucked until about week 17.

Again, this is not a difficult concept: my position ALL ALONG was to give Gary until the end of the season. If he made the tourney, he can stay, if he didn't, he goes. I talked about it more obviously after American and Ohio than I would after our one good win in UNC. Now, though, it's extremely relevant again. The collapse is almost complete and we're almost back to the NITs for the 3rd time in 4 years. Thus, I figured it was time to bring it up for discussion again, being that we're about where I predicted--the season would end with us on the outside looking in again.

Again, Gary's legacy rests with Blake and Dixon. Those two are gone. Show me any player he's had serious success with since then. All of his highly touted guys have been busts and all of his lowly-touted, "coachable, 4-year guys" have been busts. He has chosen to continue to recruit lower guys despite the fact that it's clearly not working out for him anymore and guys like Eric Hayes cannot be productive SGs in the ACC and Dave Neal productive 6th or 7th men.

So basically, if things are good, he can stay...If things are temporarily bad, he needs to go?

Interesting...Sounds like a bandwagon to me.

[bryanman8]

So basically, if things are good, he can stay...If things are temporarily bad, he needs to go?

Interesting...Sounds like a bandwagon to me.

Things are bad. How do you define temporarily bad? Isn't that all perception? My perception is that they've been bad since the NC and things keep getting worse.

This was brought up because of results. Gary's results as of late have been abysmal. As I've said the whole time, I said that if he makes the tourney, he can stay. If he turns it around and wins these last 3, as I've said all along, I'd be incredibly happy and welcome him back next year with the expectation that we continue on the right track. If he doesn't, I'm ready for a new coach.

[Mackus]

I think even Hayes has a chance to be a shooter off the bench.

We cannot run a single play to get Eric Hayes, the best shooter on our team, an open look. Someone tell me why he can't be similar to what J.J. Reddick was to Duke for us.

He has chosen to continue to recruit lower guys despite the fact that it's clearly not working out for him anymore and guys like Eric Hayes cannot be productive SGs in the ACC

Right, you're the model of consistent arguments