Baseball America: 2014 International Spending Per Team

[BradyBunch]

I'd say "let's see what Dan Duquette can produce" before we criticize, but it appears our international spend has not taken a step backward under DD.

I think the value of the international market is at the bottom of the chain, but it sure would be nice to be taking a few flyers on two or three more $400k-$500k guys than we do.

On the surface, this is really disappointing news IMO (especially given arguments in other threads about whether or not our FO is making $50M or $80M between MASN and the Os). Coupled with our low 2014 draft spend, this is not the emphasis on prospect accumulation I believe DD promised when he took over.

International spending is overrated. If you are taking flyers at $400-500k you are wasting resources as the International market has slotted bonus pool spending cap and this is based winning % which means for the Orioles not alot of money for bonuses. In 2014-2015 period Orioles were limited to $2.25m, in 2015-2016.. that will get even smaller. Then on top of that limit if you go over it.. you get taxed if you are 5-10% over, if you are tax 75% on the difference. If you are 10-15% it's 100% tax plus a limit to $500k bonus for a player next cycle. 15% or more 100% tax and limit to $250k bonus for any player. So there is a cap on what you can sign and how you sign. For example Texas screwed the pooch in 2013. They were restricted in the 2014 period. They got off restriction this year and blew their load again. Yankees have as well. End of the day all those signings by Texas and Yankees (even other teams) that caused them to go over bonus pool limits is basically paying 2xs for that player. So paying double for flyers is asinine.

[notyourbuddy]

Why is International spending overrated? Aren't a quarter of all players currently on Major League rosters Latin? Good talent down there.

The Os by not taking this market seriously are just hurting themselves. The league gave them $2.25M to play with and they didn't even bother to spend half of it.

[BradyBunch]

Why is International spending overrated? Aren't a quarter of all players currently on Major League rosters Latin? Good talent down there.

The Os by not taking this market seriously are just hurting themselves. The league gave them $2.25M to play with and they didn't even bother to spend half of it.

Yes, but most of them start their careers at 16 and are signed for $100k or less. They are low risk contracts and justified. What is not justified is dropping $500k on one guy who played in DR or so on.

O's do take it serious. Chen, Gonzo, Schoop, the Cuban players, Erod, Reyes , Diaz and so on. Two of five starting pitchers are international signings. 4/40 man roster. 3/25 man roster. But only two of them on 40 man actually counted against the bonus pool so its misleading to look at those numbers. O's sign young with the international pool (Cubans are exception) so the number is lower but still bringing in talent. Then as long as Angelos family is majority owner, no posting fee will be paid.

[notyourbuddy]

What is not justified is dropping $500k on one guy who played in DR or so on.

Out of curiosity, why not? The Os casually drop 2-3x as much on High Schoolers every June anyways. Is spending $2.25M on Hobgood or $700k on an offensive lineman really that much better of an investment?

500K is ~4th round money. How is it all the other teams are finding players they deem worthy of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round cash but the Os can't even find some 4th and 5th rounders?

[Redskins Rick]

Out of curiosity, why not? The Os casually drop 2-3x as much on High Schoolers every June anyways. Is spending $2.25M on Hobgood or $700k on an offensive lineman really that much better of an investment?

500K is ~4th round money. How is it all the other teams are finding players they deem worthy of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round cash but the Os can't even find some 4th and 5th rounders?

How often do 4th & 5th round, even make it to the MLB, on average?

This isn't the NFL with 55 man rosters, this is baseball and 25 man rosters.

[Can_of_corn]

How often do 4th & 5th round, even make it to the MLB, on average?

This isn't the NFL with 55 man rosters, this is baseball and 25 man rosters.

This isn't the NFL with their lack of a huge supporting league that hires droves of young athletes not good enough for the the main show.

This is baseball where each team needs to field enough players to fill up eight/nine teams.

[MurphDogg]

How often do 4th & 5th round, even make it to the MLB, on average?

This isn't the NFL with 55 man rosters, this is baseball and 25 man rosters.

Two 2003 4th rounders accrued at least 2 rWAR in their career. Four in 2004, five in 2005 (including Brian Matusz who didn't sign), one in 2006 and three in 2007.

[Redskins Rick]

Two 2003 4th rounders accrued at least 2 rWAR in their career. Four in 2004, five in 2005 (including Brian Matusz who didn't sign), one in 2006 and three in 2007.

So we drafted better at the top and more poorly at the bottom?

[Frobby]

Yet another example of how frustrating it is to be an O's fan and season ticket holder. Is this organization doing everything within their financial structure to put the best possible product on the field? Is this organization doing everything they can to have the best minor league system? I say NO. Yet again the question needs to be asked. Where is the money going?

Yeah, it was really frustrating to watch the team win 96 games and go to the ALCS last year. But, I suppose you were so frustrated that you didn't bother getting your tickets to the playoff games.

Honestly, can we stop pretending this is 2011 and that we're on a 14-year losing streak? Can't we acknowledge that this is a great time to be an Orioles fan, regardless of whether you think we should spend more money on international talent? Can we admit that the Orioles are 11th or 12th in major league payroll?

If you are really that frustrated, then go root for the Yankees or the Red Sox and you'll feel much better.

[notyourbuddy]

How often do 4th & 5th round, even make it to the MLB, on average?

This isn't the NFL with 55 man rosters, this is baseball and 25 man rosters.

Well just looking at some 2014 Oriole contributers

Brad Brach - 42nd round

Bud Norris - 6th round

Darren ODay - Undrafted

Ryan Webb - 4th round

Caleb Joseph - 7th round

TJ MacFarland - 4th round

David Lough - 11th round

Steve Pearce - 8th round

Chris Davis - 5th round

Even if you look at some of the other Oriole players at the same age these Internationals (~18yrs old) sign at. Gausman was considered a 6th rounder coming out of High School. Markakis a 35th rounder. It was only after these guys went to College and aged a few years that they were considered 1st round talent.

[Can_of_corn]

Well just looking at some 2014 Oriole contributers

Brad Brach - 42nd round

Bud Norris - 6th round

Darren ODay - Undrafted

Ryan Webb - 4th round

Caleb Joseph - 7th round

TJ MacFarland - 4th round

David Lough - 11th round

Steve Pearce - 8th round

Chris Davis - 5th round

Even if you look at some of the other Oriole players at the same age these Internationals (~18yrs old) sign at. Gausman was considered a 6th rounder coming out of High School. Markakis a 35th rounder. It was only after these guys went to College and aged a few years that they were considered 1st round talent.

Nice work on the list but it isn't that simple.

A college commitment or contract demands can cause a player to drop (or in the case of salary, rise) in the draft.

[weams]

Yeah, it was really frustrating to watch the team win 96 games and go to the ALCS last year.

Honestly, can we stop pretending this is 2007

If you are really that frustrated, then go root for the Yankees or the Red Sox and you'll feel much better.

It was all about Andy.

[weams]

Nice work on the list but it isn't that simple.

A college commitment or contract demands can cause a player to drop (or in the case of salary, rise) in the draft.

Back in the day, when the draft was uncapped, who your agent was could have you drop to the fifth round.

[notyourbuddy]

Nice work on the list but it isn't that simple.

A college commitment or contract demands can cause a player to drop (or in the case of salary, rise) in the draft.

Aye, your right. Seems Mr. Gausman was considered more of a 2nd rounder coming out of HS, but a combination of his commitment to LSU & $$ demands scared teams away.

[hoosiers]

International spending is overrated. If you are taking flyers at $400-500k you are wasting resources as the International market has slotted bonus pool spending cap and this is based winning % which means for the Orioles not alot of money for bonuses. In 2014-2015 period Orioles were limited to $2.25m, in 2015-2016.. that will get even smaller. Then on top of that limit if you go over it.. you get taxed if you are 5-10% over, if you are tax 75% on the difference. If you are 10-15% it's 100% tax plus a limit to $500k bonus for a player next cycle. 15% or more 100% tax and limit to $250k bonus for any player. So there is a cap on what you can sign and how you sign. For example Texas screwed the pooch in 2013. They were restricted in the 2014 period. They got off restriction this year and blew their load again. Yankees have as well. End of the day all those signings by Texas and Yankees (even other teams) that caused them to go over bonus pool limits is basically paying 2xs for that player. So paying double for flyers is asinine.

International spending is overrated - especially at the high end, but it never hurts to dip one's toes in the middle end. There is clearly value in prospects under $50k, but I have said for over 10 years here that there is a sweet spot between $75k and $400+k (like where we found Jomar Reyes) or so where I believe there is also substantial value. I am not sitting here kicking the tires demanding $1M signings like a LOT of teams operate, but we can certainly spend more than what is listed above. I am a believer in what has been preached here for years that it is more important to spend wisely internationally and out-scout teams, but still this does not require NOT taking a few shots in the deep end and I am not advocating spending to the point where penalties and lost future international slots are incurred.

The Os do not appear to have spent half of their international slot when teams are spending multiples of theirs. There is a clear difference in priorities here relative to other teams that is more than a little disappointing on the surface.