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Orioles Franchise Four


ArtVanDelay

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If you're going to excuse insane picks by saying that "impact" could mean anything you want it to mean, then that really tells us what this is all about. You might as well have said "free associate four names of people who may have once had some connection to your organization." Tippy Martinez! Ralph Salvon! Larry MacPhail! Jack Dunn!

Nope, not going to explain or excuse the insane picks.

But, that one word IMPACT, might help explain why some were picked over others.

Regardless of the outcome, with such a variety of opinions of the fans, everybody is going to have a different opinion.

Heck, people still argue over which Robinson was better, Brooks or Frank.

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Nolan Ryan was on the Final Four for Texas, Houston, and the Angels. Take that, Johnny Bench! ;)

Did Johnny Bench say something about Nolan Ryan?

I do think he's both a deserving Hall of Famer and extremely overrated.

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Did Johnny Bench say something about Nolan Ryan?

I do think he's both a deserving Hall of Famer and extremely overrated.

No, I was referring back to my post from a few months ago wondering why Johnny Bench was in the elite 8.

I think if Bonds is on the list of candidates (and he is), then Clemens also needs to be there. You could make a strong case for ARod, too. By career WAR your top 8 are:

Bonds 162

Mays 156

Aaron 143

Clemens 140

ARod 116

Henderson 111

Seaver 111

F. Robinson 107

If that's the stat you want to use, there are a lot of players who make the final 8 ahead of Johnny Bench, and both Maddux and Johnson rank ahead of Pedro.

No one can argue with Mays and Aaron. No one. But Johnny Bench shouldn't have been in the discussion.

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No, I was referring back to my post from a few months ago wondering why Johnny Bench was in the elite 8.

No one can argue with Mays and Aaron. No one. But Johnny Bench shouldn't have been in the discussion.

With Bench playing behind the plate, and the way, be brought both above offensive and above defense at the same time, put him heads and tails above his peers, makes some people over value him, in relations to the the elite 10 of MLB.

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Heck, people still argue over which Robinson was better, Brooks or Frank.

Do they really? Frank was better and it's not that close. But Brooks played here for 23 years and Frank played here for 6, so you can certainly make a good argument that Brooks was more important to the organization.

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No, I was referring back to my post from a few months ago wondering why Johnny Bench was in the elite 8.

No one can argue with Mays and Aaron. No one. But Johnny Bench shouldn't have been in the discussion.

With Bench playing behind the plate, and the way, be brought both above offensive and above defense at the same time, put him heads and tails above his peers, makes some people over value him, in relations to the the elite 10 of MLB.

Yeah, I can't make a credible argument that Bench belongs in the elite 8. He'll have to settle for being considered the best catcher of all time.

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With Bench playing behind the plate, and the way, be brought both above offensive and above defense at the same time, put him heads and tails above his peers, makes some people over value him, in relations to the the elite 10 of MLB.

I have not read the entire thread but why the hate for Mr. Bench

He is my all time favorite player. I wore #5 all thru my sports career (every sport) because of him.

Heck, I tried to be a catcher because of him - that failed////

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Do they really? Frank was better and it's not that close. But Brooks played here for 23 years and Frank played here for 6, so you can certainly make a good argument that Brooks was more important to the organization.

Wasn't there a post yesterday in OH, and it said that something about how Frank won the same number of Championship, but in only 6 years?

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People have little interest or concept of history. Especially sports history. Most people get their sports knowledge from ESPN, which tends to treat anything prior to 1979 as ancient Sumarian pre-history.

Although that doesn't quite explain Mazeroski over Bonds (Orioles equivalent: Mike Bordick over Raffy), or Brock over Pujols (say... Aparicio over Eddie) or Eck over Grove (Tippy over Palmer). Most people just don't care so you get ridiculous fan votes. My boss, who inexplicably is both a good guy and a Yanks fan, didn't know who Don Larsen was.

I guess this helps frame the BBWAA HOF votes. If the average fan thinks that Harold Baines was better than inner circle-HOFer Eddie Collins then maybe we should just be thankful that many of the writers have some vague notion that there was once some guy named Ron Santo.

Out here in the western part of the state there are a lot of Pirates fans and they absolutely despise Bonds. They think he choked in the playoffs against the Braves and then got out of dodge as soon as he could. No surprise to me at all he didn't make the Pirates list.

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I have not read the entire thread but why the hate for Mr. Bench

He is my all time favorite player. I wore #5 all thru my sports career (every sport) because of him.

Heck, I tried to be a catcher because of him - that failed////

I love the guy and respect him for what he did for the game.

I have no ill will for the guy.

I do not believe he belongs in the elite 8-10 in the entire history of MLB, again, just IMO.

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I have not read the entire thread but why the hate for Mr. Bench

He is my all time favorite player. I wore #5 all thru my sports career (every sport) because of him.

Heck, I tried to be a catcher because of him - that failed////

How does "he's not in the top 8 living" translate to "hate?" I don't hate him but I'll go so far as to say Bench was in MLB's elite 8 category as a gift to Cincinnati for hosting the game. Frank Robinson, Mike Schmidt, Griffey Jr. and several others were way more worthy.

Koufax is another curious pick, great, but in a career cut short by injury. Because of that people add to his career with "what if" he had pitched longer, what would his numbers be then? I value someone more who was able to pitch at a high level, and for longer. If you go simply by ERA+, there's Rivera, Pedro, Clemens, Maddux, Johnson. By career WAR, add Seaver, Carlton, Ryan.

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How does "he's not in the top 8 living" translate to "hate?" I don't hate him but I'll go so far as to say Bench was in MLB's elite 8 category as a gift to Cincinnati for hosting the game. Frank Robinson, Mike Schmidt, Griffey Jr. and several others were way more worthy.

Koufax is another curious pick, great, but in a career cut short by injury. Because of that people add to his career with "what if" he had pitched longer, what would his numbers be then? I value someone more who was able to pitch at a high level, and for longer. If you go simply by ERA+, there's Rivera, Pedro, Clemens, Maddux, Johnson. By career WAR, add Seaver, Carlton, Ryan.

Cal was way more worthy.

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If I was voting Yankees, I'd go Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, and Mantle and not worry about giving it a second thought.

For the Orioles, I'd go Robinsons, Palmer, and Cal. It's unfair to Murray, but if he wasn't run out of town, I'd have him over Palmer.

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Its not because Eddie was run out of town (which was none-sense, I love Eddie Murray) its because starting pitching, short stop, and third base are premium positions compared to first base.

If anything, bump Frank for Eddie because 1B is arguably better then corner outfield and Eddie was an Oriole longer then Frank.

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