Not signing Miler and Cruz is going to haunt this team and it's fans for years to come......

[DrungoHazewood]

Exactly. People think pitchers with stuff like Millers grows on trees. It doesn't. He is worth every penny of that contract. EVERY penny. We win last night and at least one other game this year already with Miller pitching. How much does that effect the teams psyche? Instead of a 5 game losing streak they play have a win and some momo. And having that confidence knowing that if they have a lead going into the 7th inning is HUGE. Just a giant confidence builder and an extreme moral deflator for the opposing team, who knows they have to have a lead going into the late innings or odds are 99% they lose. Do you know what kind of pressure that puts on other teams? How that effects performance? THAT is what I mean about having guys like Miller and Cruz cannot just be measured by pure numbers alone.

You do realize that if he'd been paid according to his more optimistic WAR valuation he's been worth roughly $35M over his entire 9+ year career? But now he's a stone-cold guarantee to be worth $36M over the next four years? Despite a very lackluster health record?

[weams]

I don't recall you or anyone else suggesting the O's trade for him at any point before the trade talks starting heating up last season.

And now he is the Kwisatz Haderach.

I think I often talked about my enjoyment of his pitching. And I was absolutely in favor of getting a lefty who could get righties and lefties out at the deadline. Miller was at the top of my list. Wesley Wright was second or third. He out performed my wildest speculations. I never thought we would even attempt to retain him. And we never did.

[Can_of_corn]

I've seen Miller pitch last year and this year. That is all I need to see. He is LIGHTS OUT.

Pretty sweet, I managed to get you to condense your entire argument into two sentences.

[weams]

How do they win last night if they have miller? Even if Miller was there and shut down Boston that doesn't mean the O's still would have scored in the eight.

If we had retained Miller, we would have non tendered Davis. So no.

[DrungoHazewood]

And you simply assume that Miller adds 2 wins to this team. But newsflash, the makeup of this team is vastly different if Miller and Cruz are brought back so their is no true way to judge where we would be this year with them.

The unstated assumption is that the O's would have just added $25M to the payroll, so of course the team would be much better. But we all know that there's a cap, and adding Cruz and Miller almost certainly would have meant $25M worth of players now on the team wouldn't be here. But that's probably okay since they're all bums and retreads and the like anyway.

[Nevermore]

I was and am a huge Andrew Miller fan. Off and on over a couple years I found him to be devastatingly effective. For a brief spell. Injury and regression prevented him from being a star. He is now paid as one. And is performing as one.

We don't really need Miller. He is a closer and we already have a very good closer, Zach Britton.

[islandecho]

Because it isn't a "few" million.

Markakis got 4/44, Snider is getting 1/2.1

Cruz got 4/57, De Aza is getting 1/5

Miller got 4/36, Garcia is making 500K.

That is a $129,000,000 difference. (I rounded some numbers off)

I was fine with losing Cakes. That offsets much of Millers and Cruz's contracts right there. Add in the fact next year we are losing Wieters, Davis, and a few others, and that more than makes up the difference. All I know is Miller and Cruz are the best in baseball at what they do TODAY, and they should be O's. They are not. Why? Because Os management is conservative and for lack or a better word, cheap.

[DrungoHazewood]

I've seen Miller pitch last year and this year. That is all I need to see. He is LIGHTS OUT.

Okay, we know where you're coming from. You really have no use for context, or history. You are one of those guys who weights a projection totally on last year, ignoring all other considerations. Got it.

[gmelson26]

I think I often talked about my enjoyment of his pitching. And I was absolutely in favor of getting a lefty who could get righties and lefties out at the deadline. Miller was at the top of my list. Wesley Wright was second or third. He out performed my wildest speculations. I never thought we would even attempt to retain him. And we never did.

I would have like to have seen us try to resign him. Though even if we went in on him, I suspect he wouldn't have signed wit him. He declined more money with the Astros so that he could sell out to the Yankees. I think he wanted to play for a "big market." That said, not even making an attempt was a disappointment to me.

[DrungoHazewood]

All I know is Miller and Cruz are the best in baseball at what they do TODAY, and they should be O's.

You do know that the baseball season lasts through September or October, right?

[Can_of_corn]

We don't really need Miller. He is a closer and we already have a very good closer, Zach Britton.

I would love to have Miller here to pitch the eighth, or the seventh, or maybe to come in with baserunners on in the sixth.

Just not at anything close to the contract he received.

[weams]

We don't really need Miller. He is a closer and we already have a very good closer, Zach Britton.

We could have lied to him and then demoted him. You are muddying the concept.

[weams]

I would have like to have seen us try to resign him. Though even if we went in on him, I suspect he wouldn't have signed wit him. He declined more money with the Astros so that he could sell out to the Yankees. I think he wanted to play for a "big market." That said, not even making an attempt was a disappointment to me.

The Orioles asked his agent what he was after at the meetings. Orioles and the agent never spoke on it again.

[islandecho]

Okay, we know where you're coming from. You really have no use for context, or history. You are one of those guys who weights a projection totally on last year, ignoring all other considerations. Got it.

I have done two things in my life to earn a living. I have owned and trained race horses and I have been a stock daytrader for many years. In both cases, I could give a flying F what a horse was like 2 years ago or what a company or stock was 9 months ago. I care about today and the future. When people value a racehorse, they don't value him on what he did as a two year old when he is now 4. It makes no difference. I care about how fast he is going NOW and who he is beating NOW. That is how I and anyone determines a horses value.

Same with a stock. A company's stock based on how the company was performing 6 months ago has no meaning to what it will do today or in the future. For example, NTEK. A 4 k streaming company. 6 months ago they were struggling getting their product launched and partnerships created. And the stock suffered down to 1.5 cents. Then just this week they have announced deals with SONY and have their product being sold on BestBuys website and the stock is starting to rebound and I think it will be a 40-50 cent stock in a year.

Stop looking at things things that don't matter and start looking at things that do.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

He is worth every penny of that contract. EVERY penny.

I would agree that, less than 3% through his deal with the Yankess, it looks like a pretty good deal.

Then again, BJ Ryan's deal with Toronto looked pretty good for a minute before it didn't look so good anymore.