Article on the Importance of Pitch Framing

[gmelson26]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/yadier-molina-forgot-how-to-frame-a-pitch/

I clicked on this article with the thought in mind that I love Joseph's pitch framing more than Wieters, and with his return soon was curious to see how what the article said on the subject. There is a link in the first paragraph to this year's MLB numbers. Joseph is 4th best out of 68. Really nice.

Here is a quote: "Since 2008, Molina has been the fifth-best framer in the league. In that time frame, Molina has saved more than 114 runs by flipping pitches that would have been close calls to strikes (worth about 11 wins, in aggregate). Since pitch framing isn?t yet accounted for when sabermetricians project a team?s statistics, Molina?s secret skill helps to explain the Cardinals? outdoing their projections for the past 10 years and some of their perpetual October success (though to a lesser extent)."

Shows roughly how valuable Joseph is.

[Can_of_corn]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/yadier-molina-forgot-how-to-frame-a-pitch/

I clicked on this article with the thought in mind that I love Joseph's pitch framing more than Wieters, and with his return soon was curious to see how what the article said on the subject. There is a link in the first paragraph to this year's MLB numbers. Joseph is 4th best out of 68. Really nice.

Here is a quote: "Since 2008, Molina has been the fifth-best framer in the league. In that time frame, Molina has saved more than 114 runs by flipping pitches that would have been close calls to strikes (worth about 11 wins, in aggregate). Since pitch framing isn?t yet accounted for when sabermetricians project a team?s statistics, Molina?s secret skill helps to explain the Cardinals? outdoing their projections for the past 10 years and some of their perpetual October success (though to a lesser extent)."

Shows roughly how valuable Joseph is.

Did you also see the part where Molina is one of the worst framers in the league this year?

The ability to frame is supposed to start degrading after a catcher hits 30 but the numbers they have for Molina this year show nothing short of a precipitous drop.

How is a framing skeptic supposed to respond to that sort of data anomaly?

[canonfaz]

Joseph just seems so quite back there. I think Wieters has a tough time because of how tall he is.

The emergence of Joseph makes losing Matt next year so much easier. I'm completely fine with having Joesph as our starting catcher until Sisco is ready in a few years (I know he has a long way to go before he'll be ready).

[Can_of_corn]

Joseph just seems so quite back there. I think Wieters has a tough time because of how tall he is.

The emergence of Joseph makes losing Matt next year so much easier. I'm completely fine with having Joesph as our starting catcher until Cisco is ready in a few years (I know he has a long way to go before he'll be ready).

It might not be Sisco that makes it first.

[canonfaz]

It might not be Sisco that makes it first.

Very true. We have a few catchers in the system that could help in a few years.

[Can_of_corn]

Very true. We have a few catchers in the system that could help in a few years.

If one of the others pan out then they could move Sisco's bat elsewhere on the diamond.

That is what I am rooting for.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Did you also see the part where Molina is one of the worst framers in the league this year?

The ability to frame is supposed to start degrading after a catcher hits 30 but the numbers they have for Molina this year show nothing short of a precipitous drop.

How is a framing skeptic supposed to respond to that sort of data anomaly?

Haven't read it, but I would guess sss and better framers in the statistical pool, among other factors.

[canonfaz]

If one of the others pan out then they could move Sisco's bat elsewhere on the diamond.

That is what I am rooting for.

That would be a nice scenario. He could also be a piece as a trade package to get what we need at the deadline too (this year's deadline or next year). Hope he gets healthy and starts playing well soon.

[canonfaz]

Does anyone know exactly how pitch framing is scored? I didn't see it explained in this article. I would assume that they just compare the % of borderline balls that were called strikes and vice versa. Is there more to it than that?

[Can_of_corn]

Haven't read it, but I would guess sss and better framers in the statistical pool, among other factors.

But this year, Molina’s framing is no longer even average. Already in 2015, Molina has cost his team about four strikes, while the best framers have gained more than 15. That may not sound like much, but over the course of a season, it could add up to a gap of more than 150 strikes, worth something like 25 runs.

1- Framing is a skill that while it does degrade with age, is supposed to be fairly consistent from season to season.

2- I have not heard of "slumps" or "Hot streaks" in regards to framing. A SSS shouldn't be much of a concern. (If you have heard of such let me know)

[Can_of_corn]

Does anyone know exactly how pitch framing is scored? I didn't see it explained in this article. I would assume that they just compare the % of borderline balls that were called strikes and vice versa. Is there more to it than that?

The study is in a state of flux.

Some groups do as you say and I have a strong desire to completely discount their results.

There is at least one group this year that is factoring in the count, the umpire and all sorts of other data. I am interested in what their findings will be.

[canonfaz]

The study is in a state of flux.

Some groups do as you say and I have a strong desire to completely discount their results.

There is at least one group this year that is factoring in the count, the umpire and all sorts of other data. I am interested in what their findings will be.

I figured there was probably a little more to it. Makes sense that they would try to factor those things in. I hoped they would at least factor in what umpire is actually calling the game and what his previous tendencies are.

[CA-ORIOLE]

1- Framing is a skill that while it does degrade with age, is supposed to be fairly consistent from season to season.

2- I have not heard of "slumps" or "Hot streaks" in regards to framing. A SSS shouldn't be much of a concern. (If you have heard of such let me know)

Small sample size can be an issue in any statistic. Pitch framing is no exception. As GM's have placed more and more emphasis in this in recent years it's likey Molina is competing against bettet pitch framers than he has in the past. I'll weight 7 years of data far more than 1/7th of a season and wait to see how it works in the end.

[Frobby]

I find the conclusions to be a bit hyperbolic.

Molina has cost his team about four strikes, while the best framers have gained more than 15. That may not sound like much, but over the course of a season, it could add up to a gap of more than 150 strikes, worth something like 25 runs. In his best year (2013), Molina acquired roughly that many extra strikes for his team, equating to an extra couple of wins per year for the Cardinals. This is no small-sample fluke, either. Unlike hitting and pitching, whose outcomes we still measure in the dozens this early in the season, Molina has seen 800 pitches this year. That sample size is plenty big.

I'm sorry, but I still say that's a small sample size. I'm not even sure where "800 pitches" is coming from. He's played in 21 games, how can that be 800 pitches? Even discounting pitches the batter swung at, Cardinal pitchers have thrown 1,157 balls and 562 called strikes. That's 1,719 pitches that have landed in the catcher's mitt without a batter swinging, and Molina has been behind the plate about 88% of the time.

In any event, I don't think you can draw huge conclusions from 21 games, in almost any facet of baseball, including this one.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Does anyone know exactly how pitch framing is scored? I didn't see it explained in this article. I would assume that they just compare the % of borderline balls that were called strikes and vice versa. Is there more to it than that?

The best data would account for pitchers skill. I don't think umps make that big of a difference since they are spread around.