Roberts Trade on Hold...ESPN Insider

[blueberryale77]

What exactly do you expect to happen? Hendry to call a press conference to announce he's done waiting on the Orioles and is officially pulling the plug? Should his testimony be sworn in by Bud, as fact and not ploy, with some sort of "double trade rumor" rule (now you can never trade for him again) accompanying it? Rumors persisting doesn't mean two teams are pulling each other's legs or anything of that sort. This is absolutely, positively, in the O's hands until the O's make a decision one way or another. The Cubs would have liked it to be over months ago but they're not going to pout and end any future possibility for discussions as a result. Nor are they going to suddenly cave in and offer much more than they were ever willing to. That is exactly why it's still up in the air.

This is silly. Both teams are still scouting each other and they haven't agreed on a package. Either team could give in, or either team could back away, or they could compromise. Unless the Cubs have made a "final offer - take it or leave it" and the O's are currently in the process of mulling over said "final offer", it is not just up to the Orioles.

[owl]

This is silly. Both teams are still scouting each other and they haven't agreed on a package. Either team could give in, or either team could back away, or they could compromise. Unless the Cubs have made a "final offer - take it or leave it" and the O's are currently in the process of mulling over said "final offer", it is not just up to the Orioles.

The Orioles know who is on the "final/only offer" list. The Cubs are waiting for what's next.

[blueberryale77]

The Orioles know who is on the "final/only offer" list. The Cubs are waiting for what's next.

Then why are they still scouting Roberts? Obviously their offer is still somewhat subject to change based on how they assess his performance in the games they're sending multiple high level scouts to.

[owl]

Then why are they still scouting Roberts? Obviously their offer is still somewhat subject to change based on how they assess his performance in the games they're sending multiple high level scouts to.

There's no reason not to be watching him and no I don't think anything they see --barring surprise negative setbacks (injury, etc.)--would have any effect at this point. Kravec is actually someone who would be at most of these games anyway.

[hoosiers]

The Orioles know who is on the "final/only offer" list. The Cubs are waiting for what's next.

This is a convenient way to look at things, but I doubt it is the way things are. We are hearing rumors, granted just rumors, of a fourth and possibly a fifth player in the deal. We've heard maybe Payton is in the deal. To say the deal is sitting only with the Os is difficult to believe.

I really do not see how a Cubs fan can visit here (speaking generically, of course) and hint like the Cubs have done everything necessary to get a deal done. Everything necessary would be a better offer than a deal headed by the Cubs #5 prospect.

It takes two to make this deal. Both sides are negotiating hard, IMO. We'll see how it plays out.

[Intimidator301]

The bottom line is both teams are still interested in what each has to offer. The season is still three weeks away, and while a resolution would be ideal, it wouldn't be in either sides best interest to just say " take it or leave it " at this point.

Cubs fans think Macphail should give in, and O's fans feel Hendry should up the offer. Neither side is wrong, because we want the best deal possible for our respected teams. But, I highly doubt neither GM is going to cave in, just to save face in the eyes of the fans.

You can't say the ball is in one teams court or the other. Either side could end this, either by giving into the others demands, or walking away. Like I said, I don't see either side walking away, until the last possible moment.

Orioles fans maybe do overvalue Roberts. But, I think Cubs fans do the same, which is ok too. Because in the end our opinions don't matter. Its the opinions of Hendry and Macphail that matter when its all said and done.

I think at this point, the odds of Roberts being an Oriole opening day is 50/50. If you asked me that 3 or 4 weeks ago, I would have said 70/30, that he's a Cub opening day. That could all change tomorrow though of course.

[owl]

This is a convenient way to look at things, but I doubt it is the way things are. We are hearing rumors, granted just rumors, of a fourth and possibly a fifth player in the deal. We've heard maybe Payton is in the deal. To say the deal is sitting only with the Os is difficult to believe.

I really do not see how a Cubs fan can visit here (speaking generically, of course) and hint like the Cubs have done everything necessary to get a deal done. Everything necessary would be a better offer than a deal headed by the Cubs #5 prospect.

It takes two to make this deal. Both sides are negotiating hard, IMO. We'll see how it plays out.

I didn't say they've done everything necessary to get a deal done, though. That would imply I think they've satisfied the O's. I do think the Cubs are willing to trade a more than fair package but I simply don't know if it's enough to make a trade go through. The Cubs are currently in the same boat. There could still be some future negotiation as there always is in tying up a deal but right now the Cubs are just waiting. I suppose if you want to add some uncertainty for who knows if Hendry wakes up tomorrow morning after a premonition in dream and caves, we could. But the boundaries are pretty set. Also, you might look at Gallagher as "BA's #5 in Cubs system" but I'm sure you know that's not exactly how Andy values him and honestly I think he, rightly, values him much more than most here do.

[Cubsfan]

Where did I get that? From your statement - If it wasn't for the Cubs FO, none of this would still be going on...

What did you mean by that statement?

And yes - there are O's fans on some Cub websites debating the value of players.

Personally, I don't think Roberts is worth 4 players and I doubt MacPhail would get a better package at the trade deadline based on typical deadline trades (pitchers and middle of the order hitters). Of course, this is just my opinion.

Also, I'd just like to see a deal done or the O's to say they are not trading Roberts because I'd like to simply read about how each team is doing in ST without all the rumors. Don't get me wrong, I actually am one who enjoys all the Roberts trade threads, but its been long enough. Complete the trade or both teams just agree to disagree on a "fair" package and walk away from each other. No trade should ever take this long.

That's not just your opinion. If you look at the return you get in deadline deals, it's typically much less than off season trades and as you pointed out, it's usually for a pitcher or middle-of-the-order hitter. If Roberts isn't dealt now, his value goes down unless there is a serious injury to a contending team. Also, realize most contending teams usually are strong enough to "get by" with a substitute 2B. His value could also be affected by decreased production caused by the daily stress of trade rumors. Roberts' value will never be higher than it is right now.

[Cubsfan]

This is a convenient way to look at things, but I doubt it is the way things are. We are hearing rumors, granted just rumors, of a fourth and possibly a fifth player in the deal. We've heard maybe Payton is in the deal. To say the deal is sitting only with the Os is difficult to believe.

I really do not see how a Cubs fan can visit here (speaking generically, of course) and hint like the Cubs have done everything necessary to get a deal done. Everything necessary would be a better offer than a deal headed by the Cubs #5 prospect.

It takes two to make this deal. Both sides are negotiating hard, IMO. We'll see how it plays out.

Everything I've read outside of the Cubs and O's sites seem to think that the rumored offer is not only fair, but overpayment. Of course the Cubs could do more to get the deal done, like give you our top 30 prospects, but that isn't going to happen. To me it is pretty obvious that the hangup is with the Orioles, especially since they're the ones with a very deliberate GM, an interfering owner, and an idol that's the "face of the team".

[davearm]

I think you are mixing up "waiting to long for these guys" with "these guys didn't want to play for the Cubs."

Mike you sound pretty silly pretending to know that the FA players who the Cubs were pursuing, and who were engaging in negotiations with the Cubs, really didn't want to come to Chicago in the first place. Not only are you not in their heads, but that's flatly illogical.

As Harry Carry correctly informed us, MacPhail tied Hendry's hands repeatedly as Hendry pursued high-profile free agents. Furcal, Beltran, Thome were mentioned. Others include Vlad and Tejada.

It's quite revealing that once MacPhail left, Hendry was able to land two huge FA fish (Soriano and Fukudome). That wouldn't have happened under MacPhail's watch (or more accurately, didn't happen in his 10 years here).

[davearm]

If MacPhail tells Hendry, "hey we're interested in dealing Roberts to you, but we have to move Bedard first," then who's holding things up, Cubs or O's?

If MacPhail tells Hendry, "hey we're interested in dealing Roberts to you, but I need to sell my owner on it first," then who's holding things up, Cubs or O's?

If MacPhail tells Hendry, "hey we're interested in dealing Roberts to you, but we have to get our scouts out to look at some guys first," then who's holding things up, Cubs or O's?

All of the above have been widely reported by media and insiders alike.

Frankly anyone here that thinks both teams are equally to blame for these delays has either got their head in the sand, or is so blindly loyal and defensive of the O's as to refuse to acknowledge reality.

[davearm]

Then why are they still scouting Roberts? Obviously their offer is still somewhat subject to change based on how they assess his performance in the games they're sending multiple high level scouts to.

You're reaching bigtime here.

As we've been over before, the Cubs were ready to take Roberts sight unseen. Scouting him was, and still is, totally unnecessary from the Cubs' perspective.

The notion that they're checking him out in consideration of boosting their offer is just goofy wishful thinking.

The Cub folks are watching O's games because they've got nothing better to do, and besides, there are likely other guys on the field they're interested in as well.

As our Cub insider has said, the O's know the parameters of a deal, and know the players available and unavailable. And they've had this information for quite some time. Now everyone is just waiting for MacPhail to make a decision.

[RShack]

If MacPhail tells Hendry, "hey we're interested in dealing Roberts to you, but we have to move Bedard first," then who's holding things up, Cubs or O's?

If MacPhail tells Hendry, "hey we're interested in dealing Roberts to you, but I need to sell my owner on it first," then who's holding things up, Cubs or O's?

If MacPhail tells Hendry, "hey we're interested in dealing Roberts to you, but we have to get our scouts out to look at some guys first," then who's holding things up, Cubs or O's?

All of the above have been widely reported by media and insiders alike.

Frankly anyone here that thinks both teams are equally to blame for these delays has either got their head in the sand, or is so blindly loyal and defensive of the O's as to refuse to acknowledge reality.

If, if, if... and that supposedly means that the O's are somehow more responsible for the 2 teams continuing to tango than are the Cubbies...

Spoken like a true Cubs fans... if Hendry didn't want to be doing this, he wouldn't be... he's a big boy... his daddy ain't making him do it...

"Blame"... that's funny.

Who's gonna get blamed if the Cubs blow it again?

[davearm]

LOL!

I see you didn't actually answer the question. But of course you can't, since everyone still capable of viewing things rationally knows I'm right.

[Flosman]

Everything I've read outside of the Cubs and O's sites seem to think that the rumored offer is not only fair, but overpayment. Of course the Cubs could do more to get the deal done, like give you our top 30 prospects, but that isn't going to happen. To me it is pretty obvious that the hangup is with the Orioles, especially since they're the ones with a very deliberate GM, an interfering owner, and an idol that's the "face of the team".

This is just not true IMO. The clubs are simply at different points in their development. A smart team where the O's are can and should be deliberate with a player like roberts. He is a proven high level player with a very stable value under the clubs control for a relatively long time. There is time to get what we need to get for him. The cubs on the other hand are on the cusp of being legit contenders. They NEED to do things now. They SHOULD consider overpaying, not grossly overpaying but overpaying non the less. I don't like the proposed deals yet from an O's view point. Gallager I like but there is not a second player that I get excited about. Cedano could be a sleeper, he has proven he is better than a AAA player but is still a question mark in the majors. The others are flawed players IMO. I would like to see vitters come back personally but I would imagine he will not be on the table. But I think I would take a deal of Gallager, Cedano, Vitters(PTBNL), Fontenot for Roberts and Payton and cash. I would even consider adding a guy like walker or bradford instead of payton. Personally I don't think a deal happens but i don't really blame either side.