Roberts Trade on Hold...ESPN Insider

[Bloopandablast]

You're reaching bigtime here.

As we've been over before, the Cubs were ready to take Roberts sight unseen. Scouting him was, and still is, totally unnecessary from the Cubs' perspective.

The notion that they're checking him out in consideration of boosting their offer is just goofy wishful thinking.

The Cub folks are watching O's games because they've got nothing better to do, and besides, there are likely other guys on the field they're interested in as well.

As our Cub insider has said, the O's know the parameters of a deal, and know the players available and unavailable. And they've had this information for quite some time. Now everyone is just waiting for MacPhail to make a decision.

Then the Cubs showed up and Trembley played and ran him first games in the spring. I believe it was 4 SB's in the first two games.

Sounds more like a team showcasing him trying to get more than it does the Cubs scouting him to see if he is still the player he was.

[PaulFolk]

BRob has nothing but respect for the Orioles orginization,but Andy the Clown shows no respect for BRob wishes,quotes....."Certainly at some point, I don't know anybody who would want to go to a new team three days before the season starts," said Roberts, who has been given updates by MacPhail on a couple of occasions. "You'd like to at least get a chance to get to know your teammates and get acclimated. But we're still a long ways from that, so I'm not too worried right now."............trade the guy already McF-A-I-L.

Hi CubbyFan,

Let's refrain from the childish name-calling and refer to the guy by his actual name. Check out the board rules, particularly number 5.

Thanks.

[ugadawg38]

This is just not true IMO. The clubs are simply at different points in their development. A smart team where the O's are can and should be deliberate with a player like roberts. He is a proven high level player with a very stable value under the clubs control for a relatively long time. There is time to get what we need to get for him. The cubs on the other hand are on the cusp of being legit contenders. They NEED to do things now. They SHOULD consider overpaying, not grossly overpaying but overpaying non the less. I don't like the proposed deals yet from an O's view point. Gallager I like but there is not a second player that I get excited about. Cedano could be a sleeper, he has proven he is better than a AAA player but is still a question mark in the majors. The others are flawed players IMO. I would like to see vitters come back personally but I would imagine he will not be on the table. But I think I would take a deal of Gallager, Cedano, Vitters(PTBNL), Fontenot for Roberts and Payton and cash. I would even consider adding a guy like walker or bradford instead of payton. Personally I don't think a deal happens but i don't really blame either side.

How about the Cubs throw in Aramis Ramirez, Carlos Zambrano, and Derek Lee as well?

You are definitely getting in this deal more than you got for Tejada. Its funny how certain posters trash our minor league system but then get all giddy over five players from the worst minor league system in baseball. A deal where the centerpiece is already out for the year and who one poster said "has a three percent chnce of being ocky Biddle and a 97% chance of being Jim Parque."

[Cubsfan]

This is just not true IMO. The clubs are simply at different points in their development. A smart team where the O's are can and should be deliberate with a player like roberts. He is a proven high level player with a very stable value under the clubs control for a relatively long time. There is time to get what we need to get for him. The cubs on the other hand are on the cusp of being legit contenders. They NEED to do things now. They SHOULD consider overpaying, not grossly overpaying but overpaying non the less. I don't like the proposed deals yet from an O's view point. Gallager I like but there is not a second player that I get excited about. Cedano could be a sleeper, he has proven he is better than a AAA player but is still a question mark in the majors. The others are flawed players IMO. I would like to see vitters come back personally but I would imagine he will not be on the table. But I think I would take a deal of Gallager, Cedano, Vitters(PTBNL), Fontenot for Roberts and Payton and cash. I would even consider adding a guy like walker or bradford instead of payton. Personally I don't think a deal happens but i don't really blame either side.

I agree with some of what you wrote, but the problem I see is that you think the Cubs need to make this trade now. Actually, the "problem" is that Hendry really wants Roberts which is why this trade speculation has gone on for so long. There has been lots of discussion on Cubs' boards about how much of an upgrade Roberts is over DeRosa and what this upgrade is worth in prospects. The Cubs are favorites to win the NL Central without Roberts. All "prospects" are flawed until they prove themselves at the major league level. Also, I've posted before that Roberts now is at maximum value, so the O's might "need" to trade him now to get the best offer.

[Tx Oriole]

I didn't know George Sherrill is your brother Elsid. Glad the O's ahve him on their team.

[Flosman]

I agree with some of what you wrote, but the problem I see is that you think the Cubs need to make this trade now. Actually, the "problem" is that Hendry really wants Roberts which is why this trade speculation has gone on for so long. There has been lots of discussion on Cubs' boards about how much of an upgrade Roberts is over DeRosa and what this upgrade is worth in prospects. The Cubs are favorites to win the NL Central without Roberts. All "prospects" are flawed until they prove themselves at the major league level. Also, I've posted before that Roberts now is at maximum value, so the O's might "need" to trade him now to get the best offer.

They need to make a deal because they are not the CLEAR favorites by any objective measure. They have a good chance but the Brewers will be heard from, IMO. The position of the cubs is not that great IMO. They are good enough to be legit contenders (particually if Pie turns out to be the real deal) but probably not a great team. The don't have many elite prospects in thier system so they had better win soon or be willing to spend a ton. I personally don't know if I would deal for Roberts if I were the Cubs GM at the price that the O's are demanding. But by the same token I know I would not lower what I was demanding if i were McPhail. I have been saying for a while that if the Cubs long list of untouchables truely are untouchable than a deal probably won't happen.

Now riddle me this Batman. Which GM is a bigger failure come October, McPhail by having to attempt to move Roberts next winter or Hendry for missing the playoffs by 2 games with DeRosa and Fontenot at second. Now tell me who needs this deal more????

[Owatcher]

Not enough. Not even close IMO. I wish these two GM's would kill the deal and move on.

I couldn't agree more.

[Ballgame64]

Now riddle me this Batman. Which GM is a bigger failure come October, McPhail by having to attempt to move Roberts next winter or Hendry for missing the playoffs by 2 games with DeRosa and Fontenot at second. Now tell me who needs this deal more????

If the Cubs miss the playoffs by 2 games, I highly doubt anyone will focus on the 2nd baseman. And please explain to all of us how Brian Roberts guarantees the Cubs make the playoffs in your scenario.

The Cubs won the division last year. It took Piniella a couple of months to understand exactly what he had. After June 1st they had one of the best records in baseball. They basically have the same team back with a couple of key changes - Fukudome and Soto. They are the favorites again this year.

[Flosman]

If the Cubs miss the playoffs by 2 games, I highly doubt anyone will focus on the 2nd baseman. And please explain to all of us how Brian Roberts guarantees the Cubs make the playoffs in your scenario.

The Cubs won the division last year. It took Piniella a couple of months to understand exactly what he had. After June 1st they had one of the best records in baseball. They basically have the same team back with a couple of key changes - Fukudome and Soto. They are the favorites again this year.

Please explain were i said that the Cubs getting Roberts Guarantees anything. The statement i made goes to the implication that the O's need to get this deal done has bad has the Cubs. This is simply not a true statement. The Cubs look to be fighting for the playoffs, while the O's appear to be fighting for the number one draft pick. If Piniella and Hendry think a legit leadoff guy significantly increase the likelihood of the Cubs winning more games then the Cubs need this deal far more than the O's.

[Cubsfan]

They need to make a deal because they are not the CLEAR favorites by any objective measure. They have a good chance but the Brewers will be heard from, IMO. The position of the cubs is not that great IMO. They are good enough to be legit contenders (particually if Pie turns out to be the real deal) but probably not a great team. The don't have many elite prospects in thier system so they had better win soon or be willing to spend a ton. I personally don't know if I would deal for Roberts if I were the Cubs GM at the price that the O's are demanding. But by the same token I know I would not lower what I was demanding if i were McPhail. I have been saying for a while that if the Cubs long list of untouchables truely are untouchable than a deal probably won't happen.

Now riddle me this Batman. Which GM is a bigger failure come October, McPhail by having to attempt to move Roberts next winter or Hendry for missing the playoffs by 2 games with DeRosa and Fontenot at second. Now tell me who needs this deal more????

How about in October 2010 when the Orioles are still in 3rd or 4th place instead of contending? Or how about this October if the Cubs do win and the O's offers for Roberts next year are half of what the Cubs are offering? How about October 2011 when the Orioles miss the playoffs because to some other team that acquired Murton, Gallagher, Cedeno, and Patterson?

[ChaosLex]

How about in October 2010 when the Orioles are still in 3rd or 4th place instead of contending? Or how about this October if the Cubs do win and the O's offers for Roberts next year are half of what the Cubs are offering? How about October 2011 when the Orioles miss the playoffs because to some other team that acquired Murton, Gallagher, Cedeno, and Patterson?

No offense, but I don't see how Murton, Gallagher, Cedeno and Patterson are going to help any team make the playoffs.

[owl]

No offense, but I don't see how Murton, Gallagher, Cedeno and Patterson are going to help any team make the playoffs.

No offense, but I don't see how you think you know so well what these players offer, much less saying they won't help anyone in 2011. Your argument is based in a limited ML sample and your assumptions on the Cubs management roster decisions, right?

[ChaosLex]

No offense, but I don't see how you think you know so well what these players offer, much less saying they won't help anyone in 2011. Your argument is based in a limited ML sample and your assumptions on the Cubs management roster decisions, right?

If these players were nearly as good as some of you guys are making them out to be, they'd be just as "untouchable" as Pie, Ceda, Colvin, Marmol, etc.

If Gallagher, Cedeno and Veal is the best offer out there, I'd be more than happy to have Roberts leading off for us on Opening Day.

[ChaosLex]

I do..... add them to core of players the Orioles already have, and get league avg or better production from them at minimal cost... that would help us a ton.

If in 2010, we are getting an 800 OPS each out of Cedeno, Patterson, Murton, and a 3rd to 5th starter out of Gallagher... that would be an amazing return.

I hear what you're saying. I guess I'm just a homer that's hoping for a lineup centered around Roberts, Teixeira, Markakis, Rowell, Alvarez/Smoak, Wieters, Jones, etc., in a couple of years.

[owl]

If these players were nearly as good as some of you guys are making them out to be, they'd be just as "untouchable" as Pie, Ceda, Colvin, Marmol, etc.

I don't understand this argument. Any player the Cubs offer is junk because otherwise they wouldn't offer it? Gallagher is easily the team's best pitching prospect but since the Cubs would have to give him up in the deal, he must not be very good nor valued by the Cubs? If the Cubs were offering Pie and Marmol to begin with, it seems to follow you'd not want them since the Cubs offered them. Not the most sound of logic - it feels closer to "whatever I can't have, that's the only thing I want."