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Talking Bandwagon and Fair Weather fans


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That's like saying you hate the United States if you distrust or hate the federal government.

MSK

Yes. It is just like that. And it is an incredibly good Front Office. So much so that our opponents tried to poach it. If you try to oppose that point you are just wrong. Not evil. Wrong.

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So who exactly put these guys together so they could overperform. It is a pity you don't see how that works.

As I have stated many times before, it was Andy MacPhail who really set this team up for success. Nobody is so magical that they can walk in the door to a bad situation and succeed immediately because they are "good". As I have said repeatedly, a GM has to be measured by the W-L's 3 years after they take over. Dan Duquette is on the clock for this team. And I hope he is successful.

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Yes. I don't credit the front office for our guys playing over their abilities for the last three seasons. I credit our guys.

When the front office does everything they can to stand pat for the sake of being cheap and not explore every possible option to improve (like, say, the international scene), then I have a problem. Yes I do.

When the front office stands still while other teams make blockbuster signings and/or trades to improve, then yes, that's a problem.

Pity you don't see how that works.

MSK

I think that there is a lot of generalization going on. Either you think that the O's front office is totally awesome and can do no wrong and is entirely responsible for the past few seasons of winning. Or else you think that the O's front office is totally awful and the team has been winning in spite of its front office.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. I neither hate nor worship the O's front office. I happen to believe that players win championships, not front office people. On the other hand, front office people aid in assembling a team of players that can win championships. Both components (players and front office) are needed to make a winning team.

Now a few comments of my own on the above:

Making a "blockbuster trade" or signing a "blockbuster" free agent does not necessarily mean that it's good for our team's winning ways. We need to make intelligent moves, not just "blockbuster" moves. Personally, I was in favor of re-signing Nelson Cruz, even to a 4 year contract. My reasoning is that, for the most part, a team's management is signing Cruz to a 2 year contract and the other two years are a bonus if Cruz still does things to help the team. I realize that this makes Cruz awfully expensive. But when signing FAs, the team's management is taking a risk. In my opinion (and it's just my opinion) this risk would have been worth it because it would have made it more likely that the O's would become a championship team. However, right now, this is beating a dead horse, so I don't want this thread to continue yet again on "Should we have resigned Cruz?" This is an area where I disagree with O's management. But it's water over the dam.

Then we get to Ubaldo. Many people opposed his signing -- a 4 year, $50M contract for an inconsistent pitcher. What is interesting is that, when Ubaldo had a terrible season in 2014, many were furious at Ubaldo rather than being furious at Duquette for having signed him in the first place. However, lo and behold -- Ubaldo is now performing at the level of the O's best starter. Did DD know something that most of us didn't know when DD signed him? Or was it Ubaldo who worked his tail off to achieve what he is currently achieving? Who gets the credit?

I could go on and on. But it's gettting late, and I just got home from the Seattle game.

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As I have stated many times before, it was Andy MacPhail who really set this team up for success. Nobody is so magical that they can walk in the door to a bad situation and succeed immediately because they are "good". As I have said repeatedly, a GM has to be measured by the W-L's 3 years after they take over. Dan Duquette is on the clock for this team. And I hope he is successful.

It's quite a bit easier to acquire talent when you're expected to lose and can trade all your best players in the offseason and at the trade deadline for several years, and can draft in the top 4 spots each year as AM had the luxury of doing. Certainly easier as compared to trying to actually be competitive each and every year as DD has tried to do. I'll certainly give credit to AM for competently laying the foundation of the team (even though I think he stayed a year or two too long), but I give the real credit to DD for changing the culture of the organizations front office with respect to modern analytics, scouting, evaluation methods and overall competency.

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I don't get the "sky is falling we suck" sentiment some of our fans have. But I also don't understand the sentiment that other fans have in calling people fairweather when there are legit concerns about the team this year. Namely defense and our lack of everyday corner outfielders.

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I don't get the "sky is falling we suck" sentiment some of our fans have. But I also don't understand the sentiment that other fans have in calling people fairweather when there are legit concerns about the team this year. Namely defense and our lack of everyday corner outfielders.

I doubt there is anyone that doesn't have concerns about the team.

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Yes. I don't credit the front office for our guys playing over their abilities for the last three seasons. I credit our guys.

When the front office does everything they can to stand pat for the sake of being cheap and not explore every possible option to improve (like, say, the international scene), then I have a problem. Yes I do.

When the front office stands still while other teams make blockbuster signings and/or trades to improve, then yes, that's a problem.

Pity you don't see how that works.

MSK

Yes, its a pity I didn't realize you were smarter than the Orioles front office. I won't get into all the free agent signings you have wanted over the years that have blown up in the faces of all those teams who signed those players, as it's a beaten horse and you won't see you were wrong anyway.

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Not really. People get called out when ALL they do is voice concern without offering rationale solutions. When someone can't celebrate the positives it gets old. Those people especially get called out when they don't have any consistency at all in the details of their complaints / solutions. For instance, if someone were to say we've got to get a top of the rotation starter to be good in the offseason, but then had multiple posts in early spring training saying "I told you we needed more hitting" when we weren't hitting, but then had multiple posts early in the season saying "I told you the relief pitching was bad" because it wasn't going well, but then flipped back to the starters when they went bad. Well, after awhile, it might seem that the person didn't actually have any cogent thoughts except for a need to complain and act superior. Those types might get called out once in awhile. Maybe...

Not saying I've seen this on here, but I've experienced a ton of "sky is falling" fans after the series against the Mets and Yanks on social media, radio, etc. And then when someone would bring up the inconsistent defensive play in those series, they'd get lumped with the idiots. Just my observation.

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Not saying I've seen this on here, but I've experienced a ton of "sky is falling" fans after the series against the Mets and Yanks on social media, radio, etc. And then when someone would bring up the inconsistent defensive play in those series, they'd get lumped with the idiots. Just my observation.

No offense, but I think your observation skills are a bit off. I doubt anyone would get "jumped on" and "lumped as an idiot" for simply pointing out the teams "inconsistent defensive play" without there being much more to it.

"On here" is kinda what counts. That's why a lot of us are "here" instead of "there".

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As I have stated many times before, it was Andy MacPhail who really set this team up for success. Nobody is so magical that they can walk in the door to a bad situation and succeed immediately because they are "good". As I have said repeatedly, a GM has to be measured by the W-L's 3 years after they take over. Dan Duquette is on the clock for this team. And I hope he is successful.

Andy definitely helped build the core. But DD finished the product. Chen and Gonzo completely changed the team.

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This guy who loves the team so much wasn't able to be here at all Sunday when a first game rookie pitched his butt off and we won to break the losing streak. He was here tonight in the game thread long enough to get upset about the leadoff home run but wasn't heard from again once we started scoring. I'm sure that it just a coincidence though. I'm also sure it is a coincidence that if some random person were to go follow this particular posters history and follow which days he posts and which days he doesn't, it would be decidedly slanted toward the days the Orioles lose. When the Orioles are on a losing streak, it's amazing how much free time this person has to post. I'm sure it is just a coincidence though. He loves the team so I'm sure his best days happen on the days we're playing well. Otherwise, someone might think that sharing in the Orioles' successes isn't really the primary goal.

Two of our other diehard fans from the sky is falling thread (Fastball and Island Echo) haven't posted here since we last lost on Saturday either. I'm sure it is just a coincidence. I'm sure they are ecstatic that we've played well the last couple games. They just got busy.

Go ORIOLES!!!

Actually, my last post was something to the effect of "I hope they put some wins together" and then they went on to win the game.

Coincidentally, I continued to watch the game WHILE eating dinner and couldn't eat and type on a message board at the same time (it has something to do with having a personal life).

So, let me get this straight, your thesis is that I only have something to say when the Orioles are losing?!?!

What the hell would be the point in being happy when the Orioles lose? That doesn't make sense.

For the 9 millionth time, I WANT THE ORIOLES TO WIN.

I get angry when they lose because of a lack of movements to improve the team. Apparently, no one else on the OH has any concerns about this team.

Explain how being critical of the FO = "not being a real fan."

MSK

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There are, but when someone voices concerns a lot of them get called out.

The issue is that if you say anything negative, you're expected to roll out an array of statistics and formulas that "back up" your POV. No matter what you say, people will jump on you repeatedly if you discuss anything that cannot be fully quantified.

Things like chemistry and morale (which are intangible human conditions that most people would conclude does have an effect on human performance in work and in sports) are not taken seriously or given the weight of consideration.

I've watched this team for decades and didn't abandon them during the darkest of years, but somehow I'm not a "real fan" because I dare to question the abysmal lack of movement by the Orioles front office during the last two offseasons. 2014's offseason was crappy, but nothing compares to the lack of effort from this past offseason.

With the way DD ignored improving the team, one might think he was distracted or was using the Andy MacPhail guidebook to Orioles' success.

Not going to just stick my head in the orange sand. That doesn't make me a bad person or a fake fan.

MSK

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The issue is that if you say anything negative, you're expected to roll out an array of statistics and formulas that "back up" your POV. No matter what you say, people will jump on you repeatedly if you discuss anything that cannot be fully quantified.

Things like chemistry and morale (which are intangible human conditions that most people would conclude does have an effect on human performance in work and in sports) are not taken seriously or given the weight of consideration.

I've watched this team for decades and didn't abandon them during the darkest of years, but somehow I'm not a "real fan" because I dare to question the abysmal lack of movement by the Orioles front office during the last two offseasons. 2014's offseason was crappy, but nothing compares to the lack of effort from this past offseason.

With the way DD ignored improving the team, one might think he was distracted or was using the Andy MacPhail guidebook to Orioles' success.

Not going to just stick my head in the orange sand. That doesn't make me a bad person or a fake fan.

MSK

How did Miller become an Oriole for the final two months of last season, when the bullpen became unhittable and the team pulled away to win the division by 12 games? I guess DD didn't have anything to do with that?

Your real argument is that the Orioles don't build the team the way YOU want them to build it, and thus THAT is why you get angry.

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How did Miller become an Oriole for the final two months of last season, when the bullpen became unhittable and the team pulled away to win the division by 12 games? I guess DD didn't have anything to do with that?

Your real argument is that the Orioles don't build the team the way YOU want them to build it, and thus THAT is why you get angry.

Hah. This. Lots of this. They complain about Cruz and Miller not being on this team but are ignorant of how they got here in th3 first place.

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