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Former Key Orioles Faring Well In 2015

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By PressBoxOnline
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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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We won the division by 15 games last season and the team had the option of putting it's foot on the division's throat by adding a little bit of salary.

If we had traded or non-tendered Norris and De Aza, we could have used that money to sign Cruz or Miller while adding minimal salary. There were several other players to be had via trade that would have been upgrades to what are getting out of Travis Snider. This all could have been done by adding no more than 10-15 mil in payroll from where we are at now.

I think as fans we have the right to be upset that the FO/Angelos didn't go for the throat. I think that's what organizations that really care about winning do when they are in our position.

It would be interesting to test that proposition. Our payroll is "only" up by $11 mm this year. Do you think that the previous year's division winners typically increase their payroll by more than that? I'm not advocating that you are right or wrong, just curious.

I think your post is using a lot of hindsight on De Aza, Norris and Snider, even though the season is only 35 games old. Let's pick three players who have underperformed so far and hypothesize how we could have spent that money better -- you could play that game with every team in the league.

As to Cruz -- the decision not to sign him wasn't about whether he'd help the team in 2015. It was about him possibly taking up 10% of our payroll or more at a time when he'd be far less productive than he is right now. You can't apply hindsight to Cruz until a couple of years from now.

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maybenxtyr Hangout Veteran Council

maybenxtyr

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The order of importance for me:

1. Cruz.

As good as Miller has been, he is a reliever. The money he makes doesn't sway the Yankee payroll that much. That kind of money in Baltimore would be ridiculous for a reliever. Also, he is a relief pitcher... seeing how his production holds up over the contract will be interesting.

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ChuckS Hangout Grand Counsel

ChuckS

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It would be interesting to test that proposition. Our payroll is "only" up by $11 mm this year. Do you think that the previous year's division winners typically increase their payroll by more than that? I'm not advocating that you are right or wrong, just curious.

I think your post is using a lot of hindsight on De Aza, Norris and Snider, even though the season is only 35 games old. Let's pick three players who have underperformed so far and hypothesize how we could have spent that money better -- you could play that game with every team in the league.

As to Cruz -- the decision not to sign him wasn't about whether he'd help the team in 2015. It was about him possibly taking up 10% of our payroll or more at a time when he'd be far less productive than he is right now. You can't apply hindsight to Cruz until a couple of years from now.

I'm not necessarily saying we needed to sign Cruz or Miller in particular, just that we could have probably signed one of them and there was other talent out there that we could have signed or traded for (Seth Smith who just went yard for Seattle is one of them). I think a lot of us were calling for Norris to be traded (me included) because it wasn't going to be worth paying a fifth starter 10 million with the SP depth we had/have.So not a whole lot of hindsight there.

What we saw in the offseason was the rest of the division (Toronto, Boston, New York) make serious moves to improve where we were just kind of happy to stand pat. Instead of staying ahead we let the rest of the division catch up to us. I think this is how the majority of people outside of our organization look at it and they are not wrong.

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Rene88 Hangout Grand Counsel

Rene88

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In fairness, a lot of people were calling for Norris to be traded in the winter. The signs for regression were there.

That aside, tendering Hunter and Matusz will always be baffling to me. Imagine how many other things we could've done with that money.

I like Bud but trading him after last year did make a lot of sense. And yes a lot of people suggested that.

That Matusz thing is moronic. There might be 5% of educated Oriole fans that would have agreed with that move. They gambled and lost.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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I like Bud but trading him after last year did make a lot of sense. And yes a lot of people suggested that.

That Matusz thing is moronic. There might be 5% of educated Oriole fans that would have agreed with that move. They gambled and lost.

Isn't he going to be our lefty starter next year?

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ChuckS Hangout Grand Counsel

ChuckS

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I like Bud but trading him after last year did make a lot of sense. And yes a lot of people suggested that.

That Matusz thing is moronic. There might be 5% of educated Oriole fans that would have agreed with that move. They gambled and lost.

Right Matusz. So there's another 3 mil we could have saved. Matusz + Norris salaries could have paid for Miller's 2015 salary. Could have gotten Seth Smith for a C prospect and non-tendered De Aza. Then how much better does our team look right now? That's adding no salary!

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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Right Matusz. So there's another 3 mil we could have saved. Matusz + Norris salaries could have paid for Miller's 2015 salary. Could have gotten Seth Smith for a C prospect and non-tendered De Aza. Then how much better does our team look right now? That's adding no salary!

Half as good as with Travis Snider? Smith is a .3 WAR.

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ChuckS Hangout Grand Counsel

ChuckS

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Half as good as with Travis Snider? Smith is a .3 WAR.

His OPS is 100 points higher than Snider's playing in a pitcher's park. I don't care what his WAR is 35 games into the season. He's not as good. I'm not sure where the lower WAR comes from, but I would point to WAR being faulty in this instance.

Snider hasn't pulled a ball with authority like Smith did against us today all season!

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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His OPS is 100 points higher than Snider's playing in a pitcher's park. I don't care what his WAR is 35 games into the season. He's not as good. I'm not sure where the lower WAR comes from, but I would point to WAR being faulty in this instance.

Snider hasn't pulled a ball with authority like Smith did against us today all season!

Ok. WAR is faulty. Got it.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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His OPS is 100 points higher than Snider's playing in a pitcher's park. I don't care what his WAR is 35 games into the season. He's not as good. I'm not sure where the lower WAR comes from, but I would point to WAR being faulty in this instance.

Snider hasn't pulled a ball with authority like Smith did against us today all season!

Maybe he did not face a gopher pitch like Miguel threw him.

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ChuckS Hangout Grand Counsel

ChuckS

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Ok. WAR is faulty. Got it.

Explain to me how a player OPSing 100 points higher while playing in a tougher park to hit in is not as good as the guy with the OPS 100 points lower with something other than "WAR says so". Please.

We know it's not Snider's defense.

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