@ VA 3/09 7:30 pm

[BaltimoreTerp]

I don't know that he dragged them out of anything. He took over a nationally renowned program and its low point. And, when the program got off of the sanctions, they improved. Sure, he had something to do with it. But, when you take over at the low point, any improvement is magnified.

But then why fire him at THIS low point? I know you aren't saying that, but trust me, "others" will.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Lol, fine. You do it your way, I'll do it mine. The point is, these so-called "inferior replacements" that you're so freaking scared of all did better than Gary is doing RIGHT now as soon as they took over!

You can't argue with that. Each and every one of those coaches that took over did more with their respective programs than 3 NITs in 4 years.

Keep being arrogant and proven wrong, it suits you.

So you are going to ignore his post that refutes you? Nice debate strategy.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Lol, UCLA went from winning the championship in 10 of the last 12 years Wooden coached the team to making the tournament the next six years under three different coaches and never winning it all.

Guthridge did fine with Dean's recruits over the next three years and then, poof, he was gone. Doherty came in and got ONE NCAA win in three years before being fired.

For the record, both of those situations are better than what Gary is currently doing. He of ONE NCAA win in FOUR yeras.

[BaltimoreTerp]

For the record, both of those situations are better than what Gary is currently doing. He of ONE NCAA win in FOUR yeras.

Imagine it being worse.

I bet the people that forced-out Lefty didn't think it could get any worse then all of the Len Bias stuff.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Right, Guthridge did fine with Smith's recruits for three years. Then what happened? Hey, if you think that UNC's record over the last ten years (4 Sweet Sixteens or better in 10 years) is comparable to Smith's last 16 years (14 Sweet Sixteens in 16 years), ok. I don't. The school clearly took a step back. It appears they have now recovered (under the guide of another Hall of Fame coach who was an HOF'er BEFORE he got to UNC).

You keep mentioning Guthridge using Smith's recruits. Obviously this means that you view recruiting as more important than other facets of coaching (since obv. Guthridge had less to do with the Final Fours than Smith's recruiting did).

Since Gary isn't a good recruiter (even you have to admit that) how do you reconcile these viewpoints?

[Pedro Cerrano]

Imagine it being worse.

I bet the people that forced-out Lefty didn't think it could get any worse then all of the Len Bias stuff.

Lol, worse the 3 NITs in 4 years? I'll roll the dice on the new guy, thank you very much.

[BaltimoreTerp]

This is like arguing with Oldfan, only dumber. It isn't worth it.

I just hope you all remember that the old proverb about being careful what one wishes for achieved old proverb status by being uncannily accurate.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Lol, worse the 3 NITs in 4 years? I'll roll the dice on the new guy, thank you very much.

Bob Wade...

Adeiu.

[beaner]

From an unbiased point of view here:

Gary Williams did not suddenly forget how to coach. A lot of you guys seem to forget that he has never been a great recruiter. I keep reading that recruiting was Lax these last few years. I can't think of more than 5 McDonald's All Americans he's recruited (Rhodes, Miller, Jones, Garrison,?). Even the players that you guys had your Sweet 16/Final Four/NC teams weren't filled with great recruits. Joe Smith, Juan Dixon, Lonny Baxter, Steven Blake...etc. The list goes on of guys that Gary has developed into great college players. Give him time with some of these younger, talented guys that you have. Who's to say he can't have the same success with Milbourne, Tucker, and Burney that he had with Baxter, Dixon, and Blake.

[Jagwar]

I don't know that he dragged them out of anything.

No way. The program was dead in the water after Bias died and the failed Bob Wade experiment. No players wanted to come to MD until Gary showed that the worst was over for the program.

He took over a nationally renowned program and its low point.

Nationally renowned... for the Bias tragedy, for Bob Wade's recruiting violations, for being in the NCAA's crosshairs. Not the renown you are hinting at. It's not easy to get out of that hole... remember SMU football?

And, when the program got off of the sanctions, they improved. Sure, he had something to do with it. But, when you take over at the low point, any improvement is magnified.

The program was dead, flatlined, and Gary Williams brought it back to life.

[Jagwar]

Bob Wade...

Adeiu.

+1

Wade was horrible. He couldn't coach, he committed recruiting violations, and it is rumored that he was a huge part of keeping Baltimore kids from going to Maryland.

[Fairfax Bird]

Really? OK.... This despite all the history at MD that tells you otherwise. I'll just agree to disagree with you. You would think the MD area just developed this BB talent over the last decade. It isn't so. This area has been a BB hotbed for my entire life.

What if the last decade was your only point of reference?

I am really dissapointed with this team. I can honestly say that I have had impure thoughts regarding a new coach, but GW should have a chance to rebound. I will stick to next year and the year after. After those two seasons if the program isn't on better footing we need to move in a different direction.

BTW ... Travis Ford from UMass is the next big thing. I would love to get him here if and when Gary hangs it up.

[Pedro Cerrano]

From an unbiased point of view here:

Gary Williams did not suddenly forget how to coach. A lot of you guys seem to forget that he has never been a great recruiter. I keep reading that recruiting was Lax these last few years. I can't think of more than 5 McDonald's All Americans he's recruited (Rhodes, Miller, Jones, Garrison,?). Even the players that you guys had your Sweet 16/Final Four/NC teams weren't filled with great recruits. Joe Smith, Juan Dixon, Lonny Baxter, Steven Blake...etc. The list goes on of guys that Gary has developed into great college players. Give him time with some of these younger, talented guys that you have. Who's to say he can't have the same success with Milbourne, Tucker, and Burney that he had with Baxter, Dixon, and Blake.

It's a risk I'd rather not take. Must be nice to root for a great program with a great coach.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I'm not going to attack you personally as you've done to me repeatedly now. However, your logic is completely wrong. You keep pointing to the fact that UNC and UCLA are better than MD as proof that they didn't miss their coaches, but that isn't true. And examining Gary's record by citing nothing but NIT in 3 of 4 years is incredibly intellectually dishonest.

I've had no problem with you previous to tonight, but you've really gone over the line twice now. If I wanted to be equally rude, I think I have the ammunition to do so, but I'm going to resist.

Did you / do you play and/or coach a lot of basketball? You seem to believe you're quite knowledgable on the subject, so I wondered if it was from study of the game or playing the game.

Lol, yea ok.

And no, star pitcher, I haven't playd basketball professionally or even in high school. But that doesn't mean I can't speak intelligently on the subject.

My whole point here is that going from Gary to another coach doesn't mean the program will tank right away. On the contrary, other teams have moved on from long-tenured coaches and enjoyed some level of success -- at least more success than MD is "enjoying" right now.

I'm about done here. You're actually providing some sort of argument. Your partner in crime, however, adds nothing to the conversation and instead just fires little insults and barbs from behind his computer screen. Not too into that.

[Fairfax Bird]

From an unbiased point of view here:

Gary Williams did not suddenly forget how to coach. A lot of you guys seem to forget that he has never been a great recruiter. I keep reading that recruiting was Lax these last few years. I can't think of more than 5 McDonald's All Americans he's recruited (Rhodes, Miller, Jones, Garrison,?). Even the players that you guys had your Sweet 16/Final Four/NC teams weren't filled with great recruits. Joe Smith, Juan Dixon, Lonny Baxter, Steven Blake...etc. The list goes on of guys that Gary has developed into great college players. Give him time with some of these younger, talented guys that you have. Who's to say he can't have the same success with Milbourne, Tucker, and Burney that he had with Baxter, Dixon, and Blake.

Thanks for the knowledge as always and a big congrats on beating the Dukies. That was quite a game.