I don't understand how Capps' hop is legal

[Can_of_corn]

I see nothing in those rules that pertain to Capps' hop.

I wasn't stating an opinion just providing the information.

[tntoriole]

I see nothing in those rules that pertain to Capps' hop. This is the only one that might apply: rule 8.05 (g) The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not

touching the pitcher?s plate

8.01 B would apply, imho. Any motion from the set position commits the pitcher to delivering the pitch "without alteration or interruption". The hop clearly interrupts the delivery of the pitch until he lands and then completing the delivery. If this is not against this rule, then tell me where any rule would prevent a pitcher from hopping four or five more times before actually throwing the pitch at about 20 feet away. This game has been played for over 100 years and this has NEVER been seen or allowed.

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[El Gordo]

8.01 B would apply, imho. Any motion from the set position commits the pitcher to delivering the pitch "without alteration or interruption". The hop clearly interrupts the delivery of the pitch until he lands and then completing the delivery. If this is not against this rule, then tell me where any rule would prevent a pitcher from hopping four or five more times before actually throwing the pitch at about 20 feet away. This game has been played for over 100 years and this has NEVER been seen or allowed.

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It seems ambiguous to me. For one the context seems to be dealing with balks and deeking runners, and two, deeking the batter by quick pitching or starting, stoping and starting again, to upset his timing. In Capps' case once he commits to the pitch he continues in the direction of the plate . Does the hop interrupt it? That seems to me to be a matter for interpretation. Perhaps that is why MLB said he had to drag his foot. Much more difficult to keep hopping towards the plate when dragging the foot. I think they should revisit this rule and make it more specific. As it stands now I don't think it prevents Capps from doing what he is doing.

[tntoriole]

It seems ambiguous to me. For one the context seems to be dealing with balks and deeking runners, and two, deeking the batter by quick pitching or starting, stoping and starting again, to upset his timing. In Capps' case once he commits to the pitch he continues in the direction of the plate . Does the hop interrupt it? That seems to me to be a matter for interpretation. Perhaps that is why MLB said he had to drag his foot. Much more difficult to keep hopping towards the plate when dragging the foot. I think they should revisit this rule and make it more specific. As it stands now I don't think it prevents Capps from doing what he is doing.

I disagree. His arm does not continue uninterrupted towards the plate. He holds it behind his hip cocked until he lands the hop because that is where he is pushing off from the second time. If it is legal, then every minor league pitcher needs to learn it, because it literally cuts off two feet or more of distance. If he continues to blow away other teams like he did us, there will be a major outcry from other teams that will force MLB to change its interpretation.

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[Rich Mac]

It seems ambiguous to me. For one the context seems to be dealing with balks and deeking runners, and two, deeking the batter by quick pitching or starting, stoping and starting again, to upset his timing. In Capps' case once he commits to the pitch he continues in the direction of the plate . Does the hop interrupt it? That seems to me to be a matter for interpretation. Perhaps that is why MLB said he had to drag his foot. Much more difficult to keep hopping towards the plate when dragging the foot. I think they should revisit this rule and make it more specific. As it stands now I don't think it prevents Capps from doing what he is doing.

I believe the context clearly is meant to dictate the distance from which a pitcher begins his delivery. Why else would it determine that the pitcher's delivery must begin with his foot touching the pitcher's plate? An object which is at a set distance from home plate.

I think that most people here are in agreement that the rules DO NOT clearly stop Capps from doing what he is doing. However, I think that most here feel that MLB needs to quickly step in and tell him that this needs to stop. Then the powers-that-be need to take a long, hard look at the rule book and make some changes.

Capps is essentially toying with a loophole in the rules book. If this is allowed by MLB then they are opening up a can of worms the size of A-Rod's ego. I can picture guys skipping, hopping or rolling all the way down into the grass to make a delivery.

This is a league that wants more scoring, so I can hardly imagine this foolishness going on for too long.

[berettafan]

In the braves video he is not pushing off a second time.

[El Gordo]

I disagree. His arm does not continue uninterrupted towards the plate. He holds it behind his hip cocked until he lands the hop because that is where he is pushing off from the second time. If it is legal, then every minor league pitcher needs to learn it, because it literally cuts off two feet or more of distance. If he continues to blow away other teams like he did us, there will be a major outcry from other teams that will force MLB to change its interpretation.

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That is your interpretation. Obviously if the league saw it that way they wouldn't have allowed it. The fact that they have indicates that they see the ambiguity. They want to avoid rewriting the rule, but I think they will have to. The fact that his arm doesn't immediately move toward the plate doesn't mean anything IMO. It doesn't with most pitches deliveries. The movement towards the plate is initiated with the legs and the arm follows. This is the case with Capps as well.

[berettafan]

He is just delaying a portion of his throwing motion until he is closer to the plate.

It's BS.

[Rich Mac]

That is your interpretation. Obviously if the league saw it that way they wouldn't have allowed it. The fact that they have indicates that they see the ambiguity. They want to avoid rewriting the rule, but I think they will have to. The fact that his arm doesn't immediately move toward the plate doesn't mean anything IMO. It doesn't with most pitches deliveries. The movement towards the plate is initiated with the legs and the arm follows. This is the case with Capps as well.

Actually, every delivery begins with a motion that takes the ball back towards second base. Otherwise you would be throwing a shot put. He clearly doesn't begin that motion until his right foot lands after the skip.

[El Gordo]

Actually, every delivery begins with a motion that takes the ball back towards second base. Otherwise you would be throwing a shot put. He clearly doesn't begin that motion until his right foot lands after the skip.

There's nothing in the rule that prevents you from throwing shot put. It just wouldn't be very effective. The reason for the pitcher beginning his wind up with his foot on th rubber is simply to signify it is an official pitch. It has to do with not deeking the batter or the baserunner. If he begins with his foot off the rubber it is a balk or some other violation. He has to start 61'6" away but no pitcher releases the ball from that distance and no pitcher releases the ball with his foot still on the rubber. I agree he is exploiting a loophole but if the league thought it was a blatant violation they wouldn't have allowed it. It is ambiguous enough that they did. Who knows why. Maybe there would have been Union issues.

[tntoriole]

That is your interpretation. Obviously if the league saw it that way they wouldn't have allowed it. The fact that they have indicates that they see the ambiguity. They want to avoid rewriting the rule, but I think they will have to. The fact that his arm doesn't immediately move toward the plate doesn't mean anything IMO. It doesn't with most pitches deliveries. The movement towards the plate is initiated with the legs and the arm follows. This is the case with Capps as well.

Except his pivot foot is two feet closer to the plate. If you are correct, then there is nothing that prevents even more hops to the plate and not releasing the ball until you are right on top of the hitter. Marlins and Capps won't go that far but there is no difference. If you allow the pitcher to interrupt his delivery, hop, then complete the delivery ...then Capps could hold his arm back and hop three quarters of the way to home plate and then deliver the pitch under this interpretation.

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[El Gordo]

Except his pivot foot is two feet closer to the plate. If you are correct, then there is nothing that prevents even more hops to the plate and not releasing the ball until you are right on top of the hitter. Marlins and Capps won't go that far but there is no difference. If you allow the pitcher to interrupt his delivery, hop, then complete the delivery ...then Capps could hold his arm back and hop three quarters of the way to home plate and then deliver the pitch under this interpretation.

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I am not the one allowing it. The league is. You have to ask why? I am saying it is because the rule as it stands does not preclude it. They have to change it. If they don't you might very well have hop skip and jump pitchers.

[tntoriole]

I am not the one allowing it. The league is. You have to ask why? I am saying it is because the rule as it stands does not preclude it. They have to change it. If they don't you might very well have hop skip and jump pitchers.

Initially they banned him doing it. Peter Gammons reported a month ago that MLB advised teams this "dive" was not legal. Capps had multiple pitches called illegal less than a month ago in the minors. This so-called "correction" was the Marlins announcing that Capps had corrected it by supposedly "dragging" his foot (which he does not do) but this was his first game back. We shall see what MLB does on further reviewing the tape.

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[El Gordo]

Initially they banned him doing it. Peter Gammons reported a month ago that MLB advised teams this "dive" was not legal. Capps had multiple pitches called illegal less than a month ago in the minors. This so-called "correction" was the Marlins announcing that Capps had corrected it by supposedly "dragging" his foot (which he does not do) but this was his first game back. We shall see what MLB does on further reviewing the tape.

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I understood that it was MiL umpires that banned the move and the ML allowed it with the foot drag. And didn't he pitch against ATL earlier? http://wtop.com/sports/2015/04/could-this-weird-pitching-delivery-be-legal-video/Here's another good article discussing him: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/56955/carter-capps-delivery-is-strange-and-apparently-legal

[Old#5fan]

He is just delaying a portion of his throwing motion until he is closer to the plate.

It's BS.

Right!! You may be a Shorebird but you are spot on. I am at a loss as to how anyone with normal eyesight and even a casual fan of the game can't easily see this should be illegal.