The Bos stickin it to Peter again.

[Flosman]

That is just so much BS! Anyone who didn't like the trade would be criticzing Duquette, not Angelos. Find me one post on this board that didn't like a trade (that was completed) and criticized Angelos.

Actually in this case I think we would see some around here would say that Brob was dealt because he was just getting ready to make real money. i.e. Angelos is cheap.

[Rolotomassie]

Boswell is the most overrated columnist I have ever read. He is a very bitter, biased guy when it comes to the Orioles and especially PA. He will never say a good thing about him. But watch, even when the team changes ownership he will make excuses to continue to hate the Os.

Angelos' statements the other day were not well thought out, so he gave Boswell a lot of ammunition. That said, Boz makes LaRoche out to be the next Pujols rather than a slightly younger Jay Gibbons like he is. And he doesn't mention the other pricipals in the trade, Penn (a lot of promise) and Giles (can't field, can't leadoff, and really isn't much of a hitter anymore.

[Tony-OH]

Rumored to be!

Lets ask ourselves how much stock we as a community put in rumors.

The buck stops with Angelos at all times. He gets blamed for everything from concession prices to decisions that were made 20 years before he showed up. but you're telling me that letting Brian Roberts go, one of the faces and leaders of the team, wouldn't garner himm any criticsism whatsoever?

That was no rumor. I have it on good sources that Bautista was ordered to be traded.

Of course the buck stops with Angelos. When he goes on record as saying he vetoed the Roberts deal, it says that he makes final calls on these types of baseball related matters.

We've always heard that he was an integral part of the "process", but now we have it from his own mouth that he made the final call to not trade Roberts.

Whether you agree with his call or not, the reason you hire baseball people like Duquette and Flanagan to run your team is because they are suppose to have the experience to make those calls. This goes back to Angelos nixing the Bonilla trade. The fact that the Orioles made the playoffs meant it had a good short term effect. However, the overall effect was that Gillick left, Johnson left, and ever since Angelos has made it known that he believes he's smarter then everyone he hires so he'll make the final call.

If he dedicated his entire time to being an owner and was immersed in baseball scouting reports and information there may be some merits to his actions, but let's be real here, he's barely seen around his office, I mean, at least when George Steinbrenner wants to be hands on, he's always around the team.

Angelos' own words means "the buck stops with him". As long as he continues to run the Baltimore Orioles like this the longer this organization will be handcuffed and paralyzed by indecision and lack of vision.

What does this mean for Orioles fans? Nine straight losing seasons and an organization that will struggle to find any respect from anyone outside of the organization.

[rolliefingers]

PA can talk about BRob and his love for him all he wants but a huge reason he vetoed the deal was Giles' drinking problem(allegedly i should say) and the thought he was on roids.

Where did you hear that stuff about Giles? Not debating, just asking.

[Sports Guy]

Where did you hear that stuff about Giles? Not debating, just asking.

The roid stuff has been a rumor for a while.

His numbers dropped off big time a few years ago.

[Witchy_Chick]

Isn't LaRoche ready to make real money and wasn't Giles going to make a lot more than Penn this year?

Ya' stole my thunder.

Roberts' '07 salary = $4.2 million (2nd yr arb)

Roberts '06 salary = $3.075 million (1st yr arb)

Penn = major league minimum (or split contract?)

--------------------------------------------------------

LaRoche '07 salary = $3.2 million (1st yr arb)

Giles '07 salary = $3.25 million (2nd yr arb (after being non-tendered))

Giles '06 salary = $3.85 million (1st yr arb)

So yeah, Giles + Laroche $$$ >>> Roberts + Penn $$$$.

Witchy

[PaulFolk]

PA can talk about BRob and his love for him all he wants but a huge reason he vetoed the deal was Giles' drinking problem(allegedly i should say) and the thought he was on roids.

What's your source on this? I don't remember any report to this effect.

[SilentJames]

What's your source on this? I don't remember any report to this effect.

Yeah I hadn't heard that either. Doesn't that just make Pete MORE right?

I'm done with this, I'm just going to agree to disagree with most of you guys on this one. Becuase we are just going to go around in circles.

[HoodGuy007]

The only reason we go in circles is because you keep addressing the wrong point. The point isn't whether it was a good trade or not. The point is that Duquette should be the judge of what's a good trade or not, not Peter Angelos. Angelos admitted that his decision had nothing to do with baseball or whether it was a good trade or not, so you continually keep defending a point (that the trade was bad) which really has no relevance in the discussion. But don't let me stop you. You'll probably post again and tell me we should be happy Angelos nixed the trade because it was a bad trade.

We agree to disagree because, in my opinion, as owner, he has the right to question the people he pays as much as he wants. Thats what most owners do... yeah, he may piss off the stock holders, i.e. the fans, but it is his right. If he wants to do it he can. And does :-D.

[33rdst]

The only reason we go in circles is because you keep addressing the wrong point. The point isn't whether it was a good trade or not. The point is that Duquette should be the judge of what's a good trade or not, not Peter Angelos. Angelos admitted that his decision had nothing to do with baseball or whether it was a good trade or not, so you continually keep defending a point (that the trade was bad) which really has no relevance in the discussion. But don't let me stop you. You'll probably post again and tell me we should be happy Angelos nixed the trade because it was a bad trade.

Unless of course Peter decides he doesn't like Duquette's decision. Peter Angelos is the owner of the team. He get's to decide whether he gets involved or not. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. And if Duquette couldn't handle it or if he didn't like it he'd leave. So far that doesn't appear to be a problem.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I'm debating whether I should get involved here, or just sit back and watch more and more people actually agree with much of what I have been saying, and torn multiple new-ones for saying, for the time I've been on these boards.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Everyone agrees that he's theowner and he can do what he wants. We just wish he would decide that Duquette knows more than him and butt out.

I'm almost tired of telling you that you just don't get it but I'm up for one more time. YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He gets it. You just don't want to think that he does and admit being wrong that Angelos might actually be right over something.

Maybe Duquette isn't the be-all, end-all of GMs that we think he is?

Or, maybe he just made a mistake that was corrected by his superior?

Or, maybe Angelos is just looking to tick off the people at the Hangout?

Personally, I think the second option is one that should be agreeable to all, since Duquette, I would assume, IS human and can make mistakes.

[33rdst]

Everyone agrees that he's theowner and he can do what he wants. We just wish he would decide that Duquette knows more than him and butt out.

I'm almost tired of telling you that you just don't get it but I'm up for one more time. YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you write that while stomping your feet or holding you're breadth?

[Tony-OH]

He gets it. You just don't want to think that he does and admit being wrong that Angelos might actually be right over something.

Maybe Duquette isn't the be-all, end-all of GMs that we think he is?

Or, maybe he just made a mistake that was corrected by his superior?

Or, maybe Angelos is just looking to tick off the people at the Hangout?

Personally, I think the second option is one that should be agreeable to all, since Duquette, I would assume, IS human and can make mistakes.

Oh....my....God.....

That's all I've got to say about this post!!

RZ, I wouldn't waste any more time here. There's nothing more to see folks, move along...

[blueberryale77]

PA can talk about BRob and his love for him all he wants but a huge reason he vetoed the deal was Giles' drinking problem(allegedly i should say) and the thought he was on roids.

That combined with LaRoche's mental lapses and the fact that he legally takes a drug similar to amphetamines for his attention problems, plus the fact that he was caught on camera getting in a shouting match with his manager gives plenty of reason to keep those guys out of an already troubled clubhouse. While Angelos' explanation sounds pretty lame, it's definitely better to focus on the positives about Roberts than to discuss the negative character attributes of the other guys. I think this veto was perfectly justified on both on and off the field grounds; the only problem with it was that it wasn't (anywhere near) his first veto. He's getting to be like a governor who doesn't get along with his legislature, but would it really be in the interest of the team to completely take his veto power away?