Drum beat a little louder for Cubs deal

[ChiDude12]

"...the Cubs will likely use Ryan Theriot in the leadoff spot and Mark DeRosa as their everyday second baseman."

If I'm a Cubs fan this quote is wildly depressing.

theyre looking at felipe lopez...so im not too worried

[RShack]

haha not now, you lose out on 5 players.like i said o well:p

That's nice.

Now, we can all watch other teams play in the WS.

What size TV do you have?

[Mashed Potatoes]

theyre looking at felipe lopez...so im not too worried

I wonder what you'll have to give up to get him.

This is kind of a tangent but what a great example of how important park effects can be.

Felipe Lopez in Cincy 2005:

838 OPS

Felipe Lopez in DC 2007:

660 OPS

[fire83]

That's nice.

Now, we can all watch other teams play in the WS.

What size TV do you have?

You certainly are overvalueing Roberts. Are you saying if the Cubs get him they are in the WS but without him they have no shot? Sorry to disappoint you but he isn't A-Rod. Don't get me wrong, I like Roberts and would like to get him, but MacPhail is apparently asking too much for him so it is time to move on. Just because AM got the better of the two deals he made this year doesn't mean that every deal he makes he has to rape the other GM. One player does not win a WS for a team. But if one did, it wouldn't be Roberts.

[RShack]

This is kind of a tangent but what a great example of how important park effects can be.

Felipe Lopez in Cincy 2005:

838 OPS

Felipe Lopez in DC 2007:

660 OPS

Huh?

Mark Belanger in BAL 1971: .685

Mark Belanger in BAL 1972: .482

Frank Robinson in BAL 1966: 1.047

Frank Robinson in BAL 1968: .834

Brooks Robinson in BAL 1963: .670

Brooks Robinson in BAL 1964: .889

Cal Ripken in BAL 1990: .756

Cal Ripken in BAL 1991: .940

[Number5]

You certainly are overvalueing Roberts. Are you saying if the Cubs get him they are in the WS but without him they have no shot? Sorry to disappoint you but he isn't A-Rod. Don't get me wrong, I like Roberts and would like to get him, but MacPhail is apparently asking too much for him so it is time to move on. Just because AM got the better of the two deals he made this year doesn't mean that every deal he makes he has to rape the other GM. One player does not win a WS for a team. But if one did, it wouldn't be Roberts.

No one player can take a team to and through the World Series. Baseball is the ultimate team sport IMO. The other pieces to the puzzle have to be there.

Having said that, this entire exercise has been a result of the painfully obvious need the Cubs had for a catalyst to their offense showed in the Playoffs last year. Piniella and Hendry saw how vital a table-setter such as Roberts would be to their hopes of reaching the next level. The pitching seems to be good enough to win in the post-season if they can stay healthy, and the Cubs certainly have some power bats. They can't afford to give up any of those key pieces to get the lead-off guy they need.

The only question was whether Hendry would be able to pull off a deal for someone to fill that table-setting role. Everything looked like they would be able to pull off a deal without losing a single player they would be counting on for their playoff push this year. That would have been quite a feather in Hendry's cap. Now though, it looks like that answer has been no, and it is clear that Hendry would rather keep prospects like Ceda and Colvin for the future than obtaining that offensive catalyst this year. Hopefully that will work out down the road.

[ChaosLex]

I, for one, couldn't be happier.

[Cubsfan]

I still think that Marquis for Crisp is a trade too logical not to be seriously considered by the both teams after Boston returns to the States.

If that happens, there may be a follow on trade, but that may not happen before OD.

Marquis was named the #5 starter with Lieber going to the bullpen.

[Cubsfan]

I think AM wanted Pie in the deal, period. The Cubs would not include him. No deal. Pretty simple. I don't blame the Cubs for not including Pie in the trade, I wouldn't either. But I think that is what AM wanted, and since he does not need to trade Roberts....No deal.

On the other hand, Gallagher/Cedeno/Veal and a lesser prospect? LOL. No way I trade Roberts for that. Some of you may think so, but that is not fair value IMO. So, I support AM on this no deal.

It sure took AM a long time to understand that Pie wasn't going to be part of any deal. Hendry has labeled him "untouchable" since they signed him.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Huh?

Mark Belanger in BAL 1971: .685

Mark Belanger in BAL 1972: .482

Frank Robinson in BAL 1966: 1.047

Frank Robinson in BAL 1968: .834

Brooks Robinson in BAL 1963: .670

Brooks Robinson in BAL 1964: .889

Cal Ripken in BAL 1990: .756

Cal Ripken in BAL 1991: .940

You're right to point that out. I should not have said "great example" without more years in DC to compare to Cincy. Park effects are certainly not the only way to explain the disparity. In Lopez's case I would still think it is the primary cause going from one of the best to one of the worst hitters parks in the league.

BTW you made me check out Belanger's stats and what was his deal?

1968: 58 OPS+

1969: 95 OPS+

1970: 56 OPS+

1971: 97 OPS+

1972: 42 OPS+

[Insomniac]

It sure took AM a long time to understand that Pie wasn't going to be part of any deal. Hendry has labeled him "untouchable" since they signed him.

It sure took Hendry a long time to finally realize that AM was serious that he wouldn't trade Roberts for the package Hendry was offering.

[Harry Carry]

Veal has a high ceiling...Gallagher is another mid rotation guy for us(allowing us to trade one of those guys for a bat if we want) and Cedeno can start at SS.

And, on top of that, we get a 4th player who is probably at least a potential solid contributor.

I don't think it is some overwhelming package but i think it is fair...If EPat was the 4th player(which i would think the Cubs would jump at), i think that would be a good deal for us.

Patterson would of been the 4th player.

[Harry Carry]

I think too many people want us to rip off the Cubs while ignoring that a fair deal is the way it is going to be.

You can't expect to rip off the other team but you can expect the deal to be fair...If that package has been offered, it is indeed fair.

Now, for MacPhail's perspective, maybe fair doesn't cut it...Maybe he needs a little more upside in the deal that could end really tilting the deal to our side.

That isn't a bad thing persay....He is saying that while the deal is fair, he would rather keep BRob for now....I get that but i think he is wrong.

I think the deal is fair we are talking about a lead off hitter not a guy that hits 30 hr's and drives in 100 runs. Believe I would of liked to have Roberts but Hendry has to save some prospects in case he needs a starting pitcher at the dead line. AM has gambled here and we will see what happens. I don't feel Roberts will sign an extention with Orioles you have to think he will want to become a free agent when the time comes. The Orioles will not get a better offer at the dead line teams are looking for pitching and a big bat that is a run producer. You have to believe if the story is true Roberts will be dissapointed.

[BaltimoreTerp]

So...not only are they not willing to throw a little extra in a deal for Roberts to win, but they are willing to downgrade from DeRosa to Lopez instead.

Guess we know why they haven't even made the World Series for nine years LONGER then the Orioles have been in Baltimore.

[Harry Carry]

"...the Cubs will likely use Ryan Theriot in the leadoff spot and Mark DeRosa as their everyday second baseman."

If I'm a Cubs fan this quote is wildly depressing.

If you guys think you are going to get a better offer for Roberts you are kidding yourself. The longer AM waits his levarage goes away. IMO Veal, Gallagher, Cedeno or Patterson or Marshall that's preety fair.