Duquette SAT trade analogy - DeShields:Schoop as Pedro:Puig?

[weams]

You wouldn't be at all skeptical if someone came to you offering up $1M for your $100k house? You think the Dodgers are just that nice, they'd just love to see the Orioles win more games?

I remember the quiet desperation of the Braves to trade certain individuals over the years.

[wildcard]

I'm trying to think of cases where a team convinced itself it had to be rid of a headcase, traded him, and then the receiving team really benefited. I know the Cards had had enough of Rogers Hornsby by 1926 and traded him after a little bit of a down year. The Giants got better after they received him but were so impressed by his 10 WAR season that they traded him the next offseason to the Braves. The Braves got a great year out of him and immediately traded him to the Cubs. Dick Allen was similar - awesome numbers, didn't get along with anybody, and he was regularly traded after MVPish years and the teams didn't really seem to care. I don't know if Puig's antics are anything like Hornsby or Allen, but I would take pause if the Dodgers wanted to trade him at a discount just to be rid of him. Straight up for Schoop would seem to be trading at a loss, performance-wise, from the Dodgers' perspective.

Frank Robinson

And no I am not saying that Puig is a player on Frank's level.

[weams]

Frank Robinson

And no I am not saying that Puig is a player on Frank's level.

Not even close. On so many levels.

[wildcard]

The question is a headcase (troublemaker)that did well after being traded.

Robinson was moved because of clubhouse and off the field issues. This profile from Sports Illustrated from June of 1963 is telling. It paints a picture of Robinson as shy and introverted, but also as a player who didn’t always get along with his teammates. The article briefly mentions Robinson’s arrest in 1961, but according to Before the Machine by Mark J. Schmetzer, that event may have had a profound influence on Robinson’s relationship with DeWitt. Robinson had had a run in with the law in 1958, and then-general manager Gabe Paul and interceded on his star player's behalf. When Robinson was arrested in 1961, new GM DeWitt did not help him in any way. Robinson may have been expecting the same treatment he had gotten previously and may have been bitter about not getting it again. And despite the team treating it as a joke, Robinson’s threat to quit baseball in 1963 had to have rubbed the front office the wrong way. In the era before free agency, a holdout was the only weapon the players had in contract negotiations. A threat to quit baseball entirely was a serious matter and DeWitt must have thought Robinson meant it, since he caved and gave Robinson the trade he was demanding. At the time, it was very common for malcontents (or perceived malcontents) to be traded away, and sometimes teams would take whatever they could get to be rid of a supposed troublemaker.

http://www.redreporter.com/2013/11/23/5133726/revisiting-the-frank-robinson-trade

[El Gordo]

Frank wasn't traded because he was a head case. Why else would a team like the LAD trade a player like Puig? it has to be for chemistry. The question is would he have the same problems with the O's as he does with the LAD.

[Tx Oriole]

Eric Karabell's one of ESPN's main baseball guys and on a podcast recently, he suggested Puig could be moved this month.

Apparently, Mattingly's not a fan, and for all the talent his production has been highly erratic.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-orioles-executive-vice-president-dan-duquette-played-role-in-pedro-martinezs-path-to-hall-of-fame-20150108-story.html

20 some years ago, Duquette traded a popular young 2B for an immensely talented Dodger.

If anything like this were to happen, it'd more likely be offseason rather than trade deadline, but if Dodgers have had enough of Puig, would you give Schoop for him?

Notwithstanding Justin Turner's breakout, I think Seager and Olivera are their only two medium-term infielders so I could see them interested.

No I wouldn't want Puig.

[VTech]

One thing I hate is dumb baseball and I think Puig's Baseball IQ might be lower than De Aza's

[Three Run Homer]

Puig is a better hitter than Schoop, for sure. But Schoop is an excellent defensive player at a premium position. Puig plays corner outfield, and he plays it badly. Schoop doesn't have to improve that much as a hitter to be as good a player as Puig overall, and that's not considering clubhouse issues.

[Malike]

Puig is a better hitter than Schoop, for sure. But Schoop is an excellent defensive player at a premium position. Puig plays corner outfield, and he plays it badly. Schoop doesn't have to improve that much as a hitter to be as good a player as Puig overall, and that's not considering clubhouse issues.

To say that Puig plays defense badly, shows that you 1. Made that up. 2. Think your eye test is legit. 3. Didn't look up stats.

[xKHx]

Didn't trade but Duq did sign Manny.

[TINSTAAPP]

Why the hell would the Dodgers trade Puig for second baseman with a career .625 OPS and a career 2.8% walk rate? Does that seem like the type of move a smart baseball man like Friedman would make?

[InsideCoroner]

I would want Puig on my fantasy or video game team, but not the Orioles. By all accounts he is uncoachable (how would that go over with a guy like Buck?), me-first and a clubhouse cancer. This is just one of many articles I have read about him over the last few years.

While some issues, like his habitual tardiness for games, have abated this year, according to sources, Puig's work ethic in batting practice and the weight room continue to bother some teammates. Much of the hostility stems from a general sense of entitlement shown by the 24-year-old. During spring training this year, as Knight writes and multiple sources confirmed to Yahoo Sports, Puig argued with teammates over who should be allowed on a plane ride that typically includes wives and girlfriends. The subject of someone from Puig's entourage joining the traveling crew came up, and sources told Yahoo Sports that Puig argued with pitcher Zack Greinke and nearly came to blows with infielder Justin Turner over the matter.

Greinke, the National League ERA leader and one of the game's best pitchers, was at the center of another memorable Puig moment related in Knight's book. In 2014, during the Dodgers' annual trip to Chicago, the team bus stopped downtown to allow rookies undergoing hazing to walk into a pizza place and emerge with food for the veterans. Some Dodgers players, not wanting to wait, skipped off the bus. When the bus was ready to leave, Puig was outside, looking for his luggage inside of the bay underneath the bus. After Puig ignored multiple requests to close the luggage bay, Greinke hopped off the bus, grabbed the suitcase in front of Puig and chucked it onto Michigan Avenue. Puig stepped toward Greinke and was restrained by reliever J.P. Howell.

[DrungoHazewood]

Why the hell would the Dodgers trade Puig for second baseman with a career .625 OPS and a career 2.8% walk rate? Does that seem like the type of move a smart baseball man like Friedman would make?

The entire thread has been speculation about how the Dodgers are done with his antisocial antics and are so fed up they they'd trade him for pennies on the dollar. That doesn't seem to be based on any factual evidence, and even if its true I think it's very legitimate to question bringing someone that allegedly disruptive on board even at a huge discount.

[TINSTAAPP]

The entire thread has been speculation about how the Dodgers are done with his antisocial antics and are so fed up they they'd trade him for pennies on the dollar. That doesn't seem to be based on any factual evidence, and even if its true I think it's very legitimate to question bringing someone that allegedly disruptive on board even at a huge discount.

That's a good point but I just don't see the Dodgers making that move? When's the last time Friedman got ripped off on a trade? It rarely happens. If the Dodgers move Puig, they're going to get good value for him.

[DrungoHazewood]

Yeah, who said anything about trading him for pennies on the dollar. I missed that part.

I think trading a young guy with potential but significant holes for a player with multiple 4, 5+ win seasons on his resume in his peak years is something like "pennies on the dollar". You can quibble with the phrase, that's fine. It's a big discount. Just on performance and potential almost no one would trade Schoop straight up for Puig.