David Ortiz infers Ted Williams 502' HR Was a Fraud (Disrespected Again)

[weams]

Something I've been wondering is, how does Darryl Strawberry still have the longest HR ever at Camden Yards at 465 feet? That was almost twenty years ago. According to ESPN Home Run Tracker there have been 12 homers so far *this year* longer than 465 feet. Why is nobody hitting these long HRs at Camden Yards, where we're told all the time "the ball really flies"??

Wind Shear. After 425 FT.

[DrungoHazewood]

While what you espouse is probably true as back the people didn't have steroids but what they did have was "working man strength that came from hard work and manual labor. I would put a similar size farmer back in those days up against these steroid aided phonies today and they would put them to shame.6

I'm sure you would try, and you would be totally wrong. Those good corn-fed farm boys were the same ones competing in Olympic sports with objective measurements and every single one of those sports has seen the records of 40, 60, 80 years ago broken time and time again. How is it that your farm boy would put today's players to shame, yet in 1924 a throw of 15m would win the shot put Olympic gold, while today you need 17.5m to finish 37th in the initial Olympic qualifying round and about 22m to win it?

I know I'm never going to win an argument about the superiority of the good ol' days with you, but you're wrong. Essentially all the evidence is on my side.

[Old#5fan]

I'm sure you would try, and you would be totally wrong. Those good corn-fed farm boys were the same ones competing in Olympic sports with objective measurements and every single one of those sports has seen the records of 40, 60, 80 years ago broken time and time again. How is it that your farm boy would put today's players to shame, yet in 1924 a throw of 15m would win the shot put Olympic gold, while today you need 17.5m to finish 37th in the initial Olympic qualifying round and about 22m to win it

I know I'm never going to win an argument about the superiority of the good ol' days with you, but you're wrong. Essentially all the evidence is on my side.

Yeah but I thought we were talking baseball and Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle hit the longest two homers that have never been topped to this day! Also Mantle was said to be able to crush a beer can between his thumb and index finger and in those days cans were steel and not soft aluminum like today!

[tntoriole]

Here is the article from the day after the game where Ted hit this home run. It hit a fan sitting in that seat right in the center of a straw hat that he was wearing. It was originally reported as 450 but remeasured at 502 feet to the seat where the fan was sitting. It does say that it was "wind blown".

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/1946/06/10/ted-williams-blasts-longest-home-run-fenway-park/hxBBYnDyeKBTwrNuhhY0XJ/story.html

[OsEatAlEast]

I've always wondered if it has anything to do with one handed finishes vs. two handed finishes.

It used to be you would never see a guy take one hand off the bat when they finished their swing.

Now you are hard pressed to see a guy swing with a two hand finish. When you watch old time videos

of how many players swung the bat. It's like watching a foreign film.

[DrungoHazewood]

I've always wondered if it has anything to do with one handed finishes vs. two handed finishes.

It used to be you would never see a guy take one hand off the bat when they finished their swing.

Now you are hard pressed to see a guy swing with a two hand finish. When you watch old time videos

of how many players swung the bat. It's like watching a foreign film.

There is simply no way that oldtime players hit the ball harder than players do today.

[OsEatAlEast]

There is simply no way that oldtime players hit the ball harder than players do today.

Well, since the human genome hasn't changed much in the last 20,000 yrs. I argue that there is simply no way that they hit it less hard than today's players. It's something that just can't be proven scientifically.

[DrungoHazewood]

Well, since the human genome hasn't changed much in the last 20,000 yrs. I argue that there is simply no way that they hit it less hard than today's players. It's something that just can't be proven scientifically.

If you're going to argue that it's all genetic then I'd really like an explanation for things like why the Olympic swimming Gold Medal times of 1930 wouldn't win a good high school meet today. No, you can't go get Babe Ruth out of the grave and put him in the home run derby, but there's a ton of indirect evidence to work with.

[OsEatAlEast]

If you're going to argue that it's all genetic then I'd really like an explanation for things like why the Olympic swimming Gold Medal times of 1930 wouldn't win a good high school meet today. No, you can't go get Babe Ruth out of the grave and put him in the home run derby, but there's a ton of indirect evidence to work with.

Well you kind of overshot my point of how guys on average swing the bat different now. I think there is something in the technique that has been lost today.

Which is my reverse argument for how runners are so much better now. The technique they use for running is so much better now than it used to be.

[OsEatAlEast]

https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/KMhJPKCCiWeCkO3FPxh6Hg--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9MjI0OTtxPTk1O3c9MTg4NQ--/http://api.ning.com/files/yI5mkdONmaJl4cISdPLtyvFEJXnZsPiRIgvm9UY3fMfMcAs5N9mFGqY4uAtFiPKWlabd5BEOoDbogk0XV*VMncudUT-zVOYP/1938GehrigSwingingComicBook.jpg

Who has a follow through like this now? Players often used every inch of movement they possibly could. It's not quite the same today.

I think it's because they had to swing this way because players used bats up to 1lb heavier back then.

[Tony-OH]

I think that it's possible that in the past balls were significantly livelier than they are today. Or at least the quality control wasn't nearly as good and some balls were significantly livelier. Otherwise it's hard to reconcile stories of very long homers in prior eras when all the other known conditions should have led to much shorter home runs. If Bonds, Sosa, McGwire and others of that era couldn't hit a steady diet of 90+ mph fastballs anything remotely close to 565 feet, then how did Mickey Mantle supposedly do that before weightlifting, rock-hard maple bats, with slower pitching, etc? The physics don't make sense unless the ball was different.

This is a great point. I took the 15 minute tour of Fenway on Saturday and saw that seat and the distance, and the first thing my 19-yer old son said about the seat was "That's BS!" I'm certain The Splendid Splinter had some great power for his day, but unless the ball was somehow juiced, I don't see how he hit a ball that far. If the ball or bat wasn't juiced, then the ball had to have bounced a few times and ended up there.

In this situation, I think Ortiz may be right.

[Old#5fan]

This is a great point. I took the 15 minute tour of Fenway on Saturday and saw that seat and the distance, and the first thing my 19-yer old son said about the seat was "That's BS!" I'm certain The Splendid Splinter had some great power for his day, but unless the ball was somehow juiced, I don't see how he hit a ball that far. If the ball or bat wasn't juiced, then the ball had to have bounced a few times and ended up there.

In this situation, I think Ortiz may be right.

Maybe not though as a ball hit that high could have easily been carried by a strong wind gust making such a clout seem normally impossible. I once hit a golf ball 188 yards with a 6 iron on a par 3 a couple feet to the side of the hole. I was 57 years old and hitting about 210 on a good drive with a driver. I couldn't do that again in a million tries but the ball got caught by the wind and went a good 35 yards further than it normally would have. So a clout by Williams could have had similar wind assistance. It is definitely possible I think.

[Frobby]

The hit admittedly was wind-aided, so I don't find it that hard to believe. I don't have to guess about Reggie's homer, which I saw live and then watched replayed about 50 times. If that would have gone 530 if it hadn't hit the transformer, why shouldn't I believe that Willams once hit one 502?

[DrungoHazewood]

The hit admittedly was wind-aided, so I don't find it that hard to believe. I don't have to guess about Reggie's homer, which I saw live and then watched replayed about 50 times. If that would have gone 530 if it hadn't hit the transformer, why shouldn't I believe that Willams once hit one 502?

I don't doubt that either happened. I'm just not willing to accept/assume that guys from 50 years or more ago could hit baseballs harder and further than today's players under the same conditions.

[Redskins Rick]

But the seat was hit. So how is that relevant here?

Was not disputing that fact.

Just trying to point out, hard to compare measurements, under the old system, and balls hit since 1982 and the computerized system.