Rosenthal: No Deal

[Fan4Life]

I am just asking a question does anyone here no what the offers were for sure.

Wasn't it 3 Cub suspects to begin with.. we balked, so they thought adding more suspects would get the deal done?

[EddeeEddee]

First - you have no idea what kind of offer the Cubs "needed to make to get the deal done". Second - there have been media reports that the Orioles still hadn't let the Cubs know exactly what they wanted for Roberts as recent as last week. Third - as has been reported by insiders here, the AM wanted to trade Tejada and Bedard before focusing on Roberts. So how is it that you come to the conclusion the Cubs wasted the Orioles time?

If MacPhail wouldn't settle for any package that did not include Pie and Hendry said he wasn't trading him, these rumors would have died long ago. IMO, both GMs must have thought they could reach an agreement otherwise why would either let this drag on for months? I don't think either wasted the other ones time. They just couldn't agree on the right deal.

I think we all have a pretty good idea what kind of offer the Cubs needed to make to get a deal done. And no, such a deal did not have to include Pie. I'm sure there are are various offers the O's would have accepted, and the Cubs were never willing to go the distance on any of them.

I get the feeling the Orioles told the Cubs more than once exactly what they wanted from the Cubs, and the Cubs said no more than once. But that's OK because that is how a negotiation works. If over the past month or so the Orioles have never told the Cubs exactly what they wanted from the Cubs, it could be because the O's finally felt a) the Cubs were never going to give then the kind of deal they knew they wanted for Roberts, or b) Angelos perhaps maybe got in the way over the past month or so, refusing to give up Roberts.

Of course the O's wanted to trade Tejada and Bedard before Roberts. That makes perfect sense because both of those players had more trade value than Roberts, and because the O's were more eager to get rid of them (for various reasons) than they are to get rid of Roberts. But while the O's were negotiating trades for Bedard and Tejada, I'm sure they were listening to offers from other teams for Roberts. It's not like the Cubs couldn't have blown away the O's with an offer for Roberts the week after they traded Bedard. But the Cubs never stepped up to the plate. As bad as the Cubs wanted Roberts, they were never willing to give up more than the minimum to get him. They must have known they would have to overpay a bit to get him. The O's are on a roll getting the Astros and Mariners to overpay. In MacPhail's mind, why shouldn't the Cubs overpay somewhat too?

I don't think a trade for Roberts is dead between the two teams. But I don't blame the Cubs for walking away if they do. I they are not willing to overpay, that's totally understandable.

[wildcard]

MacPhail did not wait too long. He has not yet been offered what he needs for Roberts. It's far from over. The O's still have a very valuable player that is one of the best leadoff men in baseball. Sooner or later someone will need a player like Roberts to kick start their offense.

The Cubs may or may not still want Roberts. However, just because it may not happen by OD does not mean that Hendry does not realize that he needs more quality players to win a WS.

Sounds like some here have given up. It hardest time for that. There is a lot of losing, trading , growing and developing to do.

[Harry Carry]

I don't think so. The O's were not actively shopping Roberts as much as the Cubs were trying to get him. The Cubs must have known they had to overpay somewhat to get him and yet they still held back. They are dealing with the Orioles, a team struggling to rebuild. They are not dealing with a team like Tampa Bay, whose future is already mostly in-house.

What do you mean they aren't shopping Roberts then why were they talking to the Cubs for 3 months. Lets be fair there are a only few teams that would have interest in Roberts. How many contending teams are looking for a second baseman. There aren't to many teams that can take on his 15 million he has left on his contract.

[Ballgame64]

I don't think a trade for Roberts is dead between the two teams. But I don't blame the Cubs for walking away if they do. I they are not willing to overpay, that's totally understandable.

I don't think it is dead either. The thing that gets me is the definition of "overpay". Many would say four decent prospects for Roberts is overpaying. So I wonder what AM really is asking for. We may never know the entire story...

Thank you by the way for the nice response. Another in the many reasons I enjoy this site even though the Orioles are not my favorite team.

[EddeeEddee]

You act like Hendry offered some 34 year old career minor leaguer and two low A prospects. Maybe the market for Roberts isn't as good as AM or any Oriole fan think it is. There are many cases where the assest has more value to the owner then to any other person in the market place. That may be the case here. A deal including 4 decent prospects for a top of the order hitter is rare. Roberts is a fine player, but top of the order middle infielders don't warrant much on the trade market, historically speaking.

That's not the point. The point is that the Cubs need to come up with players that fit the Orioles' needs. Why should the O's trade for players that are redundant, low-ceiling or rejectable just because Roberts' market value may be this or may be that? The Cubs decided they needed Roberts. But the O's have apparently decided that they didn't need anything the Cubs were offering for him. The teams may match up well in terms of value, but if they don't match up well in terms of need then a trade becomes more tricky.

Still, a trade could happen. Remember the O's are a bad, bad team, and Roberts is hugely popular in Baltimore. The Cubs need to come strong if they want Roberts. The O's won't feel too sad if they can't trade him now or later. They already made two big trades this year and their middle infield isn't very good. Even though they suck, Roberts may be more valuable to the O's remaining on the team than going in a trade, at least for the time being.

[Harry Carry]

I don't think it is dead either. The thing that gets me is the definition of "overpay". Many would say four decent prospects for Roberts is overpaying. So I wonder what AM really is asking for. We may never know the entire story...

Thank you by the way for the nice response. Another in the many reasons I enjoy this site even though the Orioles are not my favorite team.

I don't think it is dead either. It sounds like he is guessing a bit. Did you noticed he also said the Orioles are still scouting the Cubs minor leaguers.

[BaltimoreTerp]

What do you mean they aren't shopping Roberts then why were they talking to the Cubs for 3 months. Lets be fair there are a only few teams that would have interest in Roberts. How many contending teams are looking for a second baseman. There aren't to many teams that can take on his 15 million he has left on his contract.

The second and third sentences are reasons we may NOT be actively shopping him.

The first sentence is easy to answer: the Cubs want Roberts. Why else would THEY have waited this long?

[Harry Carry]

That's not the point. The point is that the Cubs need to come up with players that fit the Orioles' needs. Why should the O's trade for players that are redundant, low-ceiling or rejectable just because Roberts' market value may be this or may be that? The Cubs decided they needed Roberts. But the O's have apparently decided that they didn't need anything the Cubs were offering for him. The teams may match up well in terms of value, but if they don't match up well in terms of need then a trade becomes more tricky.

Still, a trade could happen. Remember the O's are a bad, bad team, and Roberts is hugely popular in Baltimore. The Cubs need to come strong if they want Roberts. The O's won't feel too sad if they can't trade him now or later. They already made two big trades this year and their middle infield isn't very good. Even though they suck, Roberts may be more valuable to the O's remaining on the team than going in a trade, at least for the time being.

Seriously what value does he have to the Orioles besides getting 4 suspects in return. You can't run your team on sentimental value or you will never get better. Roberts is a good player but the Orioles will still lose 95 to 100 games with him or without him.

[EddeeEddee]

What do you mean they aren't shopping Roberts then why were they talking to the Cubs for 3 months. Lets be fair there are a only few teams that would have interest in Roberts. How many contending teams are looking for a second baseman. There aren't to many teams that can take on his 15 million he has left on his contract.

If the Orioles were really, really looking to trade Roberts, then they would have done it by now. I think the fact that they have not traded him yet shows that they are not shopping him that hard -- at least not yet. For now, they need to be blown away to give him up. Yes, they shopped Tejada and Bedard hard. They knew they could and they knew they had to. But with Roberts, perhaps for many of the reasons all the Cubs fans are pointing out (he doesn't have as much value as we think he does, etc.), I think the Orioles are content to take a mostly passive position on dealing Roberts -- at least for the time being.

[EddeeEddee]

Seriously what value does he have to the Orioles besides getting 4 suspects in return. You can't run your team on sentimental value or you will never get better. Roberts is a good player but the Orioles will still lose 95 to 100 games with him or without him.

What the hell are "suspects?" Who do you want to trade, Al Capone?

Trade us an unusually good suspect. We don't want the usual suspects.

And don't lecture me about sentimental value and a team not getting better. Remember, you're a Cubs fan.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Seriously what value does he have to the Orioles besides getting 4 suspects in return. You can't run your team on sentimental value or you will never get better. Roberts is a good player but the Orioles will still lose 95 to 100 games with him or without him.

Yeah, what value does an All-Star second baseman in the prime of his career, signed cheap for two years, have to anyone? Especially a team with an inferior player at the position, the available prospects to get a deal done and 100 years without a championship (and 63 without making a single World Series).

Yeah, four suspects should get THAT deal done.

This is why the Cubs have had the aforementioned "success".

[Sports Guy]

Wow!!! Maybe 101, huh???

Do you agree with Rosenthal?

[Harry Carry]

The second and third sentences are reasons we may NOT be actively shopping him.

The first sentence is easy to answer: the Cubs want Roberts. Why else would THEY have waited this long?

Yes it's obvious they want him but Hendry is the only one who has to decide at what price. For example if AM is asking for Pie the deal is dead on arrival. Pie is really playing well hitting 340 getting bunt base hits and playing outstanding defense. If you were a contending team would you trade Adam Jones for Roberts I think that is a fair question to ask you.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Yes it's obvious they want him but Hendry is the only one who has to decide at what price. For example if AM is asking for Pie the deal is dead on arrival. Pie is really playing well hitting 340 getting bunt base hits and playing outstanding defense. If you were a contending team would you trade Adam Jones for Roberts I think that is a fair question to ask you.

If Roberts was the last piece in the puzzle for a possible championship team, especially if I was going on a century without one, I would absolutely consider it strongly.

Teams are in this to WIN. Hell, that's why we're WILLING to trade Roberts instead of just keeping him as a fan favorite.