The Elephant In The Room (International Talent)

[SteveO]

It's my opinion that a lot of the Orioles woes stem from their approach or lack of a coherent one towards signing young international talent. It's the reason the minor league system is so lowly rated and has so few real prospects. Essentially not participating in a system that has increasingly contributed a growing number of players in the overall player talent pool is akin to trying to box with one arm behind your back.

This past offseason we watched Nick and Nelson walk. The decision to not resign them could certainly be argued from many different angles as has been on this discussion board. One thing that cannot be argued though IMO is that our unwillingness to spend money in the international sector to get young talent has left us in a position were we have limited young talent available to make trades and moves to replace that lost talent. When you have limited talent, you tend to overvalue that talent and be less willing to move it.

I don't believe the O's are bad at developing young talent, I think they are bad at acquiring it. Even if the O's were the best talent development franchise in MLB they would still lag behind because at the end of the day the number of talented guys they put into the system lags behind teams that spend on young international talent.

I guess I get frustrated with this whole issue because it feels like the team gets a pass on it. Nobody in the media really calls them to task on this very real issue they have. I hear very little in the way for some explanation on their approach comparative to teams who are successful in that market. It just feels that until they fix that problem, they are unlikely to have the young talent base to capitalize and acquire what they need when they have the opportunity to compete for a WS crown.

[Can_of_corn]

Schoop!

Jomar!

Things are going great!

I'm sure they are really excited about whatever kids they signed this year.

[Can_of_corn]

I'm actually kinda amazed every time the O's do get an internally developed international player to the majors.

[SteveO]

I'm actually kinda amazed every time the O's do get an internally developed international player to the majors.

I think that proves they can certainly develop those guys.

If the O's became more active in that market then I believe the talent level in the minors would dramatically increase. They can develop the guys, they just don't bring in enough of them. It's pretty hard to argue that point.

Schoop should only prove that this team needs to change its philosophy where that market is concerned.

[SteveO]

I'm actually kinda amazed every time the O's do get an internally developed international player to the majors.

I also think if they did more fully participate and utilize their resources in that market, it would greatly improve the number of prospects they have and then trading a Zach Davies or ERod would hardly elicit the type of reactions those moves get now. The problem is not trading that type of prospect to improve your team, the problem is when trading that type of prospect makes you sweat and fret because your system has so few prospects. I still feel that our lack of utilizing that market is fundamentally at the core of the problem regarding the number of prospects we have.

[MrOrange82]

I'm actually kinda amazed every time the O's do get an internally developed international player to the majors.

Which majors? Does a softball league not count? I'm still waiting on them to scout Aussie football. Those guys have nugget-like tenacity.

[BradyBunch]

I also think if they did more fully participate and utilize their resources in that market, it would greatly improve the number of prospects they have and then trading a Zach Davies or ERod would hardly elicit the type of reactions those moves get now. The problem is not trading that type of prospect to improve your team, the problem is when trading that type of prospect makes you sweat and fret because your system has so few prospects. I still feel that our lack of utilizing that market is fundamentally at the core of the problem regarding the number of prospects we have.

teams are limited on their international spending. Going over will mean limit bonus pool the following year.

[Eutaw]

They were pretty active in South Korea a couple years ago

I tapped, I talked, I conquered.

[Three Run Homer]

teams are limited on their international spending. Going over will mean limit bonus pool the following year.

Are we anywhere near going over our bonus limit? Last year I thought we traded some of our slots.

[BradyBunch]

Are we anywhere near going over our bonus limit? Last year I thought we traded some of our slots.

Won't know for a while. Don't know the exact date periods but this year (2015) just opened on July 2nd.

[El Gordo]

My opinion is that our position on international signings comes from PA and his personal political leanings. I DD had a free hand I think he would be spending to the limit.

[BradyBunch]

My opinion is that our position on international signings comes from PA and his personal political leanings. I DD had a free hand I think he would be spending to the limit.

So $2.2m is Orioles spending limit. They were $200,000 short of that last year. PA isn't gonna pay a posting fee. I find any FO that does it is literally stupid.

[TINSTAAPP]

It's also pretty difficult to acquire elite young talent through the draft unless you're picking high in the draft every year. Some teams are able to like the Cardinals, Giants, Theo's Red Sox but those are exceptionally run organizations. So really the only to get blue chip young talent on a team that is in win-now mode is by signing international free agents. The frustrating thing is that the Orioles keep spending millions of dollars on these middling Latin players in their mid 20s instead of going after the top 16, 17 year old prospects in Latin America. Henry Urrutia was never going to be an impact player. Alvarez and Miranda probably won't be impact players either. Why not spend the money on Vladimir Guerrero's son or several blue chip teenagers? It just doesn't make sense.

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[BradyBunch]

It's also pretty difficult to acquire elite young talent through the draft unless you're picking high in the draft every year. Some teams are able to like the Cardinals, Giants, Theo's Red Sox but those are exceptionally run organizations. So really the only to get blue chip young talent on a team that is in win-now mode is by signing international free agents. The frustrating thing is that the Orioles keep spending millions of dollars on these middling Latin players in their mid 20s instead of going after the top 16, 17 year old prospects in Latin America. Henry Urrutia was never going to be an impact player. Alvarez and Miranda probably won't be impact players either. Why not spend the money on Vladimir Guerrero's son or several blue chip teenagers? It just doesn't make sense.

Okay, your new here, I get it and you want to rock the boat. I get it, ask anyone here.. I like the to rock the boat from time to time.. but a few things you need to understand.

Over the last 3 years Orioles haven't had a top 5 pick in the draft. Oriole have signed Free Agents and this year was the first year the Orioles got FA draft pick. So our ability to draft is limited to our success. A mid market team not having access to extras drafts pickes during sucessful periods makes it feels like we don't have talent. Call it the curse of success. We got Wieters, Machado, Gausman, and Bundy because we were crap.

Orioles sign international free agents based on rules. We aren't a team with $100m to blow each year in the form of signing FAs and posting fees. It's not gonna happen. Do you seriously think spending $20m plus on guys like Darvish, Tanaka, Igawa or Matsuzaka is a good idea? What was spend on contract and posting fees doesn't match their value at all. Igawa and Matsuzaka was a huge flop. Iqawa pitched a total of 16 games yet he cost $26m in posting fee and another $20m over 5 year. So $46m for 16 games or $2.875m per game. That cost effective?

I've argued with others about any Japanese pitchers signed because of their over use in Nippon League. Darvish just had his TJ surgery. Matsuzaka also had TJ surgery as well.

Reality is.. tying up money in posting fees is down right igornat. You can sign other talent for 15 to 20 xs cheaper.

[Roll Tide]

And YES ...the Orioles are bottom third in developing talent.