The "other side" to how AM handled this offseason

[Cubsfan]

No offense, but you all are hardly objective. It was a marginal deal at best. I'm not particularly sorry not to have a handful of middling talents on our 40 man roster as opposed to Roberts.

Second, if you're going to start throwing around transactional suggestions on another team's board, at least be aware of what's going on. Mora has a no-trade stipulation. And there's simply no way he'd uproot his family and head west. Philly? Maybe. The West Coast? Not a chance.

By the way, it's not that it would be worse starting Moore, Cendeno, Murton et al. It's that it wouldn't necessarily be better for us long-term. Right now, AM doesn't particularly think the value of the Cubs' offer is worth the opportunity costs that pulling the trigger would create (i.e., the value of Roberts' on the field or in another trade). I'm inclined to agree.

As for the other points in this thread: I agree with Hank. The only reason to complain is if you think everything needs to get done now. Apparently, SG does. Which is fine. I'm not inclined to agree.

I'm well aware of Mora's no-trade stipulation, but I wasn't aware that you know him well enough personally to state that "there's simply no way he'd uproot his family and head west." Has McPhail discussed it with him? Players waive no-trade stipulations all of the time. As for what's better long term for the O's, I can't see how keeping and playing the likes of Millar, Gibbons, Mora, Huff, etc. is helping the long-term plan of the O's. Roberts doesn't fit in with the others I named, but the O's at some point will have to learn how to survive without him. Roberts' value is at its peak right now and it's doubtful that teams will be offering 4 young "middling talents" for him, let alone the #1 prospect that some of you are dreaming of.

[Sports Guy]

There's still time to get rid of the clutter, dude.

Trade deadline isn't for another 3 months or something.

I wish there was a MiL TV package. I'm more interested in what happens between Frederick-Bowie & Norfolk than what happens at the ML level. That's much more important in the long run.

Of course there is still time...I have never doubted this.

My point is that right now, with teams filling up their teams, getting rid of guys and things like that, it would be nice to have the flexibility to bring in better, younger talent.

You don't agree with that?

[Hank Scorpio]

I'm well aware of Mora's no-trade stipulation, but I wasn't aware that you know him well enough personally to state that "there's simply no way he'd uproot his family and head west." Has McPhail discussed it with him? Players waive no-trade stipulations all of the time. As for what's better long term for the O's, I can't see how keeping and playing the likes of Millar, Gibbons, Mora, Huff, etc. is helping the long-term plan of the O's. Roberts doesn't fit in with the others I named, but the O's at some point will have to learn how to survive without him. Roberts' value is at its peak right now and it's doubtful that teams will be offering 4 young "middling talents" for him, let alone the #1 prospect that some of you are dreaming of.

It's been pretty well documented around here that Mora doesn't want to go far. Given that he's from Venezuela, it's more than highly doubtful that he would go to the west coast.

[Dipper9]

If you're going to ignore my post, let me summarize everything into one sentence: You are basing a sweeping judgement of MacPhail's offseason on groundless assumptions, your own opinions, a complete lack of knowledge of what actually went on on a high level, and a completely arbitrary timeframe.

Actually, he is basing it on the fact that we are 5 days away from Opening Day and we have Luis Hernandez as our starting shortstop. I'd say that is pretty damning evidence to support SG's theory that MacPhail has done things one step at a time.

I know, I know, this is a rebuilding year. That statement does not excuse the fact that we will be starting a sub-par AAA guy at shortstop this season. You could have gotten a decent guy off the wire that would have at least filled in this year, until step 2 of the rebuild begins.

[Hank Scorpio]

Of course there is still time...I have never doubted this.

My point is that right now, with teams filling up their teams, gettng rid of guys and things like that, it would be nice to have the flexibility to bring in better, younger talent.

You don't agree with that?

Alright fine, I agree with you, you stubborn sob!!!!! lol

I would definitely rather see Oscar Salazar on the roster than Fahey. The fact that Fahey & Hernandez (or even Boom Boom) are both on our roster is flat out scary. But, I'm fully expecting to have some scary players on this roster this year. It's the unfortunate nature of a rebuild.

I have no idea what retreads we could bring in here at the last minute. I'm sure there are some that would be better than the Fahey's of the world, but I am willing to suck in the short term to win in 3 years. However MacPhail wants to go about it, I have to have a little faith in the guy. He has a plan and has begun to implement it. That alone gives me confidence in him because I haven't seen that since I was like 12 years old and starting to notice boobs.

[Insomniac]

Paul, my point is that people would be very happy with these moves....These are moves I am suggesting yet people are saying I am being impatient...Yet, if AM did those moves, I bet people would be happy.

Probably, but keep in mind that it turned out in the end that the sky wasn't actually falling on Chicken Little's head. I think everyone is fine with someone being impatient. I for one wouldn't care if Payton and Gibbons were traded for a box of kleenex, since I agree with you that they simply need to go so we can move on with feeling like our team has made some legitimate progress.

Its not your impatience that is frustrating people. Its the fact that you feel the need to take it to the extreme. You wish these other moves had been made a long time ago, and many on OH would certainly agree with that sentiment. But that doesn't mean as you suggest that AM is a "fool" for not having pulled the trigger on these phantom deals, or that catostrophic mistakes have been made in the last few weeks, or that the O's rebuilding strategy is now irretrievably broken much less even off course.

[Sports Guy]

Probably, but keep in mind that it turned out in the end that the sky wasn't actually falling on Chicken Little's head. I think everyone is fine with someone being impatient. I for one wouldn't care if Payton and Gibbons were traded for a box of kleenex, since I agree with you that they simply need to go so we can move on with feeling like our team has made some legitimate progress.

Its not your impatience that is frustrating people. Its the fact that you feel the need to take it to the extreme. You wish these other moves had been made a long time ago, and many on OH would certainly agree with that sentiment. But that doesn't mean as you suggest that AM is a "fool" for not having pulled the trigger on these phantom deals, or that catostrophic mistakes have been made in the last few weeks, or that the O's rebuilding strategy is now irretrievably broken much less even off course.

I said if the 4 for 1 deal that was being reported by Zrebiac was really offered, then he is foolish for not making the trade.

I stand by that.

But I haven't said he is foolish for not trading some of the other guys.

[olehippi]

Glad to hear you say this....Am i supposed to care or something?

I can only discuss things based on my opinion and what is being reported. I can't base my opinion on the unknown.

If we didn't discuss things being reported, this would be a boring place. Speculation and reporting is what drives many threads around here...It is what it is.

This statement leaves me speechless......

[Crazysilver03]

I'm well aware of Mora's no-trade stipulation, but I wasn't aware that you know him well enough personally to state that "there's simply no way he'd uproot his family and head west." Has McPhail discussed it with him? Players waive no-trade stipulations all of the time. As for what's better long term for the O's, I can't see how keeping and playing the likes of Millar, Gibbons, Mora, Huff, etc. is helping the long-term plan of the O's. Roberts doesn't fit in with the others I named, but the O's at some point will have to learn how to survive without him. Roberts' value is at its peak right now and it's doubtful that teams will be offering 4 young "middling talents" for him, let alone the #1 prospect that some of you are dreaming of.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7469272

Orioles third baseman Melvin Mora would consider waiving his no-trade clause for the Phillies or another team close to Baltimore, according to a source with knowledge of his thinking. He also would be willing to move from third base to left field in the right situation.

No team in the area really needs a 3B.

[SrMeowMeow]

Actually, he is basing it on the fact that we are 5 days away from Opening Day and we have Luis Hernandez as our starting shortstop. I'd say that is pretty damning evidence to support SG's theory that MacPhail has done things one step at a time.

I know, I know, this is a rebuilding year. That statement does not excuse the fact that we will be starting a sub-par AAA guy at shortstop this season. You could have gotten a decent guy off the wire that would have at least filled in this year, until step 2 of the rebuild begins.

It's a rebuilding year

Honestly, if he really is basing his judgement of MacPhail's offseason on the fact that Luis Hernandez is still battling for a starting spot, that's pretty silly. MacPhail made it clear that we will not be signing mediocre free agents in stopgap roles - why waste the money? I know we have it, but seriously? The wins, if any, we get from Cintron at SS are not only marginal, they're meaningless! We're seeing an aspect of MacPhail's stated philosophy at work that we may not like. You're basically asking MacPhail to grab players on the waiver wire or cheap out of FA that are similar to the players we're trying to move in Gibbons/Mora/Millar/Huff. It might make the team more watchable, but it doesn't benefit long-term.

Since Trachsel is looming in any discussion of marginal free agents, let me head that off by saying he was signed to a minor-league deal with a spring training invite. Clearly the coaches didn't see the maturity they wanted from our young pitchers, and thought that more seasoning in the minors would benefit them more than throwing 150 innings on a terrible major league team. Regarding Vargas, of course he's preferable, but a) we won't get him on a MiL deal and b) he wasn't around when Trachsel was signed and there was no indication he'd be cut (still a baffling decision).

[RShack]

Actually, he is basing it on the fact that we are 5 days away from Opening Day and we have Luis Hernandez as our starting shortstop. I'd say that is pretty damning evidence to support SG's theory that MacPhail has done things one step at a time.

I know, I know, this is a rebuilding year. That statement does not excuse the fact that we will be starting a sub-par AAA guy at shortstop this season. You could have gotten a decent guy off the wire that would have at least filled in this year, until step 2 of the rebuild begins.

Based on what they've said, they value SS-D right now and will worry about adding SS-O later on... when they can get a guy who's an Actual Solution, not some temp reject who nobody else wants. I think what they're doing is shifting the same production from SS to LF while improving SS-D. I bet the combination of LF and SS produce about the same as last year, while SS-D reduces runs-given-up. If that's what happens, then it's a net-run improvement over last year, plus it improves LF, plus it improves SS-D, which in turn helps the kid-P's... plus the whole thing happens with younger guys, and and none of it costs us a dime.

I can't believe people think AM should be shopping for other team's cast-offs. I want him focused on getting guys we actually want, not a bunch of stop-gap trash. If we have a stop-gap SS who can play excellent-D, who we already have, and who the coaches are happy with, then that's fine with me. I want AM worrying about important stuff, not little junk like getting a couple more O-runs out of a stop-gap SS while hurting our D so we can give those runs right back.

I just hope that if that little guy who wears #2 is our OD SS, then people will start rooting for the kid instead of bashing him. All he's done so far is take the chance he got last year, show up, and play better than anybody thought he would. Isn't that what we *want* our young players to do? Jeez, people...

Personally, I hope the kid plays stellar-D, gets on Web-gems about twice a week, and crams his glove down a lot of peoples' throats. I think that would help make this season a lot of fun ;-)

[Sports Guy]

What would you say if Sean Gallagher wasn't breaking 90 this spring and Ronny Cedeno is put on waivers before the end of April? You'd probably admit that Matt Murton can be had for cheap right now too. I probably would have made the mentioned trade. However, AM has done enough to earn my trust for now. I'm willing to be patient and see how things unfold. Some people want to criticize and then later say something like "well, he's just lucky it worked out that way. He probably could have done the same thing a month earlier".

Then i would ask why was AM targeting these guys from the beginning??

I would also wonder if Gallagher was hurt.

And what would you say if Gallagher was throwing 95 and Cedeno had a 1000 OPS this spring?

[jatkinson02]

Man, compared to where we were last year (or any year this decade), this is a dream for me. I'm not going to complain.

I can't agree more. Maybe we didn't have the PERFECT offseason. But, we made some moves that have a ring of things to come. AM may not move fast, but he is ensuring ROI on these trades. Maybe he is erring on the safe side, but hopefully teams will remember that they have been raping the Orioles in trades for the past 5-10 years. Payback.

[Sunner]

This may have already been asked, I was not going to read through 17 pgs. I would like to know of any time that has eaten $20 plus million in contracts as part of rebuilding. Teams have to work their way out of the hole former gms left it in. It is not pretty it is no quick, but it can be done. Some teams 49ers for example don't, some like Tigers take a while. We will have a top 5 pick this year, a top 3 next year, players that have come in trades and possibly more to come. This year will be long, but it will in a couple years be worth it.

[olehippi]

Then i would ask why was AM targeting these guys from the beginning??

I would also wonder if Gallagher was hurt.

And what would you say if Gallagher was throwing 95 and Cedeno had a 1000 OPS this spring?

Why are you so sure that these guys were targeted by MacPhail? We heard "rumors" that Gallagher was, but also that the FO wasn't so hot on Cedeno. All the other names being thrown around here were mostly wishing, hoping and dreaming. I don't recall any quote from MacPhail, or any other official O's source. And wasn't it someone with the Cubs who originally mentioned the names of players being discussed?