Hunter Harvey shut down with elbow discomfort

[Es4M11]

I don't think so, but you can't rule it out.

If there wasn't a reason to operate before then I don't see how he could have made the situation worse in so short a time.

Is "doesn't respond to rest" considered a valid reason to operate? I don't know.

It is if Harvey wants to be a MLB pitcher.

[OFFNY]

Grow the bats, buy the arms. It's sickening the level of volatility with these pitching prospects.

It's an unnatural act.

You see that fangraphs piece on the O's bullpen?

Even at comically slow speed I can't torque my elbow like O'Day does.

Yes.

When Sandy Kofax was forced to retire following the 1966 season (he was only 30 years-old), he was asked if he felt badly about having to give up his profession while he was in his prime.

Koufax said not at all, that pitching (a baseball) on a regular basis was an unnatural act, and that he felt fortunate to have been able to play and succeed at the level that he did for as long as he did.

[SteveO]

I think the hope was that rest would improve the situation. It has now been tried twice. Seems pretty clear that rest won't fix the problem. That leaves surgery.

Unless there is a clear cut alternative explanation to explain the pain which is unlikely but still remotely possible, he is getting cut.

It's easy to say "he should have had that surgery last year" ....seems like a lot of people forget that not every pitcher comes back as strong or stronger. Some never get back to where they were. As a pitcher, especially a young one it seems like undergoing a proceedure in which the outcome is not totally controlled by you is one that would be not taken lightly. It's easy to forget these are real kids, with real goals, dreams of riches and lets face it Tommy John surgery is a significant threat to that dream. I cant blame a kid for being conservative about his approach to surgery. Obviously there comes a time where options are what they are, seems close to that point likely.

[weams]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Buck also said Dr Jacobs encouraged by MRI on Hunter Harvey's elbow. Still needs to see Dr Andrews <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/orioles?src=hash">#orioles</a></p>— Roch Kubatko (@masnRoch) <a href="

">September 24, 2015</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Tanaka San

[weams]

Encouraged by the MRI. That's great and it's bad. So he keeps straining his flexor mass but it looks okay after he rests but it doesn't feel right when he throws. Next, they'll tell him to stop throwing the curve or change the way he throws it and he won't be the same pitcher.

Like Papelbon. When he was going to be a stater and subluxated. No Pronation.

[weams]

I think the hope was that rest would improve the situation. It has now been tried twice. Seems pretty clear that rest won't fix the problem. That leaves surgery.

You may be on to something with a biometric change.

[weams]

My Ben McDonald theory. They changed the way he threw his curve and it went from a Gregg Olson yacker to a big roller. He was never the same. 2.43 ERA in 1990. The best of his career.

That might well be. But then, there are a bunch of fastball only, or variations on the fastball, that have been succeeding lately. Seems like a trend. Maybe Harvey is just a reliever too.

[weams]

Maybe Bundy is too. We could use some starters.

Sure could. We keep trading those 3/4 ceiling guys though. be nice to have a 6'5 stud step up sometime.

SUNSPOT

Showalter said that team orthopedist Dr. Mike Jacobs was encouraged after seeing pitching prospect Hunter Harvey earlier today. Harvey, who has been shut down again with tightness in his throwing elbow and forearm, is still slated to see Dr. James Andrews before the Orioles decide a recovery route with the Orioles No. 2 pitching prospect.

[Jacobs] said the MRI looked good,” Showalter said. “So he’ll see Dr. Andrews and hopefully they’ll concur and he can get back to pitching again. He said the elbow looks pretty good. That was encouraging. It’s been a good day already.”

[weams]

My Ben McDonald theory. They changed the way he threw his curve and it went from a Gregg Olson yacker to a big roller. He was never the same. 2.43 ERA in 1990. The best of his career.

My Ben theory, He was broke when we got him. He was the greatest up until that College WS.

[OFFNY]

My Ben McDonald theory. They changed the way he threw his curve and it went from a Gregg Olson yacker to a big roller. He was never the same. 2.43 ERA in 1990. The best of his career.

My Ben theory ...... He was broke when we got him. He was the greatest up until that College WS.

Ben "Don't Call Me a Bust" McDonald

78 career wins, 24 complete games, 6 shutouts, a career E.R.A. of 3.91, and a career W.H.I.P. of 1.257, all the while pitching his entire 9-year career in the American League (with the Designated Hitter), and the last few years having been pitched in the offensively-inflated steroid era.

While McDonald clearly didn't have the Cuellar-like or McNally-like career that we were hoping he would have, I always point out that he also had nowhere near a Rocky Cherry-like career either, and therefore I do not lump him in with all of the other complete busts that have come and gone over the years.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcdonbe01.shtml

[sportsfan8703]

Our pen is stacked. We're going to have to try out that 15 reliever theory eventually. Time to change mantras. Grow the pen. Grow the bats. Buy or trade for the SP's. We already have a staff of 5 inning SP's. So why not just be admit that we just need a SP go 4-5 IP then go the multi inning relievers. Wright, Brach and Givens would be perfect in that role.

[Three Run Homer]

I don't follow any other teams' minor league systems, but I assume most teams have injury rates similar to our pitching prospects. I'm not sure there is any evidence to suggest the O's have done anything wrong to cause these injuries. However, when it comes to pitching prospects, it's really a war of attrition and that is where I do fault the O's. The only way to protect yourself from the inevitable pitching injuries is to stockpile and protect pitching prospects. The O's, on the other hand, have traded away a number of young pitchers as well as draft picks that may have been used on pitchers. As a result, when one of our promising pitching prospects gets injured it's much more damaging because we don't have many other talented prospects to step up and fill the void.

Another reason that the O's don't have as many pitching prospects as other teams is that they refuse to spend serious money signing prospects from the Caribbean.

[25 Nuggets]

McDonald was not a bust. But he predates Mussina by one year, so "since Mussina" still applies.

Erik Bedard would be the argument that we developed a starting pitcher since Mussina. He was also not a bust. But something in my gut tells me he developed apart from the coaching staff. He wasn't a good listener.

[weams]

Saying he was broke when we got him is convenient. Could say the same about Bundy and Harvey and any other pitcher that gets hurt under the O's watch. Fact is that Big Ben was drafted in 1989 and hardly pitched that year. Pitched in 1990 and had a 2.43 ERA, a 1.0376 WHIP, 2 shutouts, and a 1.57 ERA+. All career highs in only 118 IP. Next spring he has the strained flexor mass and is never the same. You can say he was broke when we got him but the stats say that he got injured on our watch and was never the same.

Convenient. But Not Bundy or Harvey. They were good to go. Ben was never what I saw of him in College. And yes, I watch him a lot in College.

[sportsfan8703]

Realistically if he has TJ surgery now or in ST it's the same timeline. He'll be back in 2017. Hopefully come February he'll be magically healed.