Roch: Rick Adair Talks About Jake

[canonfaz]

This would be fine if we had also traded away the staff/organizational mindset that was unable to develop him' date=' and really any pitcher. Then you say, "whatever, it sucked, but we've moved on." But we haven't moved on.[/quote']

I agree to a point. I think the staff/organizational mindset has improved some since the time Jake was here though.

The pitchers that were brought up this year looked much better to me and were ready to help the club. Givens, Wilson, Wright looked pretty good to me. I'm not saying that it's top notch, but I think it has gotten better.

[clapdiddy]

Are we Shawshank Prison for young pitchers?

I'm beginning to think so. The success of our Andy Dufresnes could point to that!

[TheDirtyBird]

My Phillies friends were giving me grief about Jake last night, all I could say was "he was terrible in Baltimore, made sense at the time [emoji53]." Boy would it be nice to have a pitcher like that

[Ruzious]

Those 2 posts by weams are all I read in this thread, but it really helps to put the whole issue behind me, anyway. Yes, mistakes were made, but they were understandable. His turnaround is astounding, but it's not going to eat away at me every time he... wins a postseason game with yet another brilliant performance. I won't lie - it stings a bit, but it's an okay sting.

[mdbdotcom]

Looks like we've progressed from turning highly touted starting pitching prospects into relievers (Matusz, Britton) and successes for other teams (Arrieta). Now, we turn them into disabled players (Bundy, Harvey).

In a related note, the Phillies outrighted Adam Loewen this week.

[Aristotelian]

The facial hair policy was obviously holding him back.

[Redskins Rick]

Schilling, Harnisch, and Finley obviously went on to have very good careers....so that trade will always hurt because Davis was a bust for us. But those 3 guys were all human....what Arrieta is doing is not even human. The best second half in the history of a sport that has existed for well over 100 years! This hurts so much because he was lousy with us and now he is literally pitching better than the best who have ever pitched. Meanwhile, we have completed 32 straight seasons without a World Series appearance. If we had won the World Series last year, I think this doesn't hurt nearly as much. But all of us are wondering, when the hell is it going to be our turn...so everything hurts right now..

I noted it earlier on this thread and several others have done so as well.....what can we as an organization learn from this situation and how can we use it to fix the biggest area of concern we have. The budget is what it is and our market is what it is. We need to seriously rethink how we develop pitchers, because it is very obvious that it isn't working and hasn't for a long time. If I am a young pitcher drafted by the Orioles, what evidence do I have to believe that this organization knows how to maximize my potential? I am trying to build a career and be great one day, and I am concerned that a lot of people who are really bad at their jobs will ruin me.

Are we Shawshank Prison for young pitchers?

Go back and relook at Schilling's history. He won 21+ games, 3 times., 3 times he was over 300 KOs, and almost had 4 seasons.

Look at his 2001 numbers, pretty dang good.

Schilling Career War is 80.7, which is HOF Territory. 78 of that came after he left the Orioles.

[Phantom]

Those 2 posts by weams are all I read in this thread, but it really helps to put the whole issue behind me, anyway. Yes, mistakes were made, but they were understandable. His turnaround is astounding, but it's not going to eat away at me every time he... wins a postseason game with yet another brilliant performance. I won't lie - it stings a bit, but it's an okay sting.

He just had one of the five best half seasons in baseball history. It will never stop bothering me that we gave away someone with the potential to be the best pitcher in our franchises history.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jake-arrietas-argument-for-the-best-season-half-ever/

And I find nothing about our mistakes "understandable". The fact that the Cubs fixed him in what felt like 20 seconds tells me all I need to know.

[JR Oriole]

Go back and relook at Schilling's history. He won 21+ games, 3 times., 3 times he was over 300 KOs, and almost had 4 seasons.

Look at his 2001 numbers, pretty dang good.

Schilling Career War is 80.7, which is HOF Territory. 78 of that came after he left the Orioles.

No argument there....I just meant that I saw him give up runs like most human pitchers do. Alphonso Soriano hit an 8th inning homerun in Game 7 of the 2001 World Series off of Schilling that would have won them the World Series if not for the D-Backs incredible comeback off of Rivera. When the Cubs scored in the first inning last night, the game was literally over. Arrieta does not give up runs. That is not human.

[Redskins Rick]

He just had one of the five best half seasons in baseball history. It will never stop bothering me that we gave away someone with the potential to be the best pitcher in our franchises history.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jake-arrietas-argument-for-the-best-season-half-ever/

And I find nothing about our mistakes "understandable". The fact that the Cubs fixed him in what felt like 20 seconds tells me all I need to know.

You mean the surgery to remove that mass, had nothing to do with his elbow problems and his pitching motion?

[Phantom]

You mean the surgery to remove that mass, had nothing to do with his elbow problems and his pitching motion?

If you think that is why he failed in Baltimore, I don't know what to tell you. Also, we clearly knew about this, so why would we let him go before it even healed? It's not like we had the guy for nine months, traded him and then there was some mystery ailment that the Cubs discovered.

[Redskins Rick]

If you think that is why he failed in Baltimore, I don't know what to tell you. Also, we clearly knew about this, so why would we let him go before it even healed? It's not like we had the guy for nine months, traded him and then there was some mystery ailment that the Cubs discovered.

Personally, I think it was getting finally comfortable with his elbow after surgery and then finding a new arm slot where his arm would stay comfortable.

He was so-so for the Cubs at first and then in the minors for part of that first season there, and then had some success at the end of that season.

[MrOrange82]

I agree to a point. I think the staff/organizational mindset has improved some since the time Jake was here though.

The pitchers that were brought up this year looked much better to me and were ready to help the club. Givens, Wilson, Wright looked pretty good to me. I'm not saying that it's top notch, but I think it has gotten better.

I don't put much stock in ERA, but Wilson's was deceptive, IMO. He allowed 50 baserunners in 36 IP (WHIP 1.389). And though I don't put much stock in ERA, Wright's was 6.04. Yikes.

Givens looked good, though. The guy that the O's drafted in the 2nd round of the 2009 draft as a shortstop looked good as a late-inning reliever. Awesome.

[FlipTheBird]

He just had one of the five best half seasons in baseball history. It will never stop bothering me that we gave away someone with the potential to be the best pitcher in our franchises history.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jake-arrietas-argument-for-the-best-season-half-ever/

And I find nothing about our mistakes "understandable". The fact that the Cubs fixed him in what felt like 20 seconds tells me all I need to know.

Fine. Beat your head into the wall as often as you want, siting Captain Hindsight.

Nobody thought Jake had this in him. Not the Cubs, not the Orioles, not anybody. He was a trash heap player that the Cubs figured they might be able to get a little something out of, not a future Cy Young candidate. Crap happens.

[Phantom]

Personally, I think it was getting finally comfortable with his elbow after surgery and then finding a new arm slot where his arm would stay comfortable.

He was so-so for the Cubs at first and then in the minors for part of that first season there, and then had some success at the end of that season.

So a fairly minor surgery he had in late 2011 kept him from being dominate until 2014? I wouldn't buy that even if it weren't being sold by a guy with a vested interest in not having it be his fault.

Even if it were all true, it doesn't excuse our trade at all, if we were giving away a pitcher we knew was still on the mend.