Os are tenth in 2007 MLB payroll

[Baltimoron]

Somethings not right... at Cot's Baseball Contracts, which includes salaries plus pro-rated signing bonuses, payroll obligations for former players and payments from other clubs.

Yankees - $189.6m

Red Sox - $143.0m

Orioles - $93.5m

Blue Jays - $81.9m

Devil Rays - $24.1m

The numbers Mr. Brown cites to are from MLB. The discrepancies aren't large, but I would think MLB's information is more accurate.

Cots' standard disclaimer is relevant to this issue:

Contract information is unofficial & collected from various published reports.

[Sports Guy]

While I appreciate the input and the partial answer, that didn't really answer my question. It's easy to say coulda woulda shoulda... I would like to see specific names you would have in place of who we do have so at least I can see that your options would have indeed been better, Now obviously if you're going to choose AAA type guys, that would be tough to make a fair comparison, but since it sounds like you're saying the guys we signed are a dime a dozen, heck, maybe even a bakers dozen, you should be able to list major leaguers that signed elsewhere for less, that you would have taken in place of someone we have....

This is next to impossible though...You could include players you could have traded for as well.

The point is there are several guys out there who could match many of our more expensive players' production for a fraction of the cost.

And then you talk about tracking numbers...Well, let's name 2 guys..Cruz Jr and Kim instead of Payton and TRax.

Cruz is in a huge pitchers park and Kim is in Coors...We would need to know their progress here and obviously, we can't know that.

[Frobby]

Very roughly, team payrolls are up about $174 mm this year, about 7-8% per team.

[Baltimoron]

From the part of the article available only to subscribers:

This shows the average salary by year going back to 1989. Between 2006 and 2007, overall salary across Major League Baseball grew by 2.7%:Year        Average        % Inc.---------------------------------1989          $512,804       NA1990          $578,930      12.91991          $891,188      53.91992        $1,084,408      21.71993        $1,120,254       3.31994        $1,188,679       6.11995        $1,071,029      -9.91996        $1,176,967       9.91997        $1,383,578      17.61998        $1,441,406       4.21999        $1,720,050      19.32000        $1,988,034      15.62001        $2,264,403      13.92002        $2,383,235       5.22003        $2,555,476       7.22004        $2,486,609      -2.72005        $2,632,655       5.92006        $2,866,544       8.92007        $2,944,556       2.7

[square634]

Looks at signature...

[Fan4Life]

This is next to impossible though...You could include players you could have traded for as well.

The point is there are several guys out there who could match many of our more expensive players' production for a fraction of the cost.

And then you talk about tracking numbers...Well, let's name 2 guys..Cruz Jr and Kim instead of Payton and TRax.

Cruz is in a huge pitchers park and Kim is in Coors...We would need to know their progress here and obviously, we can't know that.

Well I'm not discounting what you're saying, but since it can't be substantiated, it can't be given too much validity. I would think you could easily name the other possibilites that were signed (not traded as that included variables that can't be reproduced)...

These guys are the primary villains...

Baez -

Bradford -

Walker -

Payton - Cruz Jr

Trax - B.Y. Kim

[Sports Guy]

Well I'm not discounting what you're saying, but since it can't be substantiated, it can't be given too much validity. I would think you could easily name the other possibilites that were signed (not traded as that included variables that can't be reproduced)...

These guys are the primary villains...

Baez -

Bradford -

Walker -

Payton - Cruz Jr

Trax - B.Y. Kim

I already said Fultz instead of Walker(i wanted Rhodes too but he is done for the year)....I didn't have a problem with the Bradford contract except for the lost draft pick.

Baez? Do we even need to sign someone here? Hell maybe even Todd Williams pitches close to him.

I do not remember all the FA relievers this year but i am sure there are plenty of guys who could give you a 4-4.50 ERA for 2 million or less.

[hoosiers]

I do not remember all the FA relievers this year but i am sure there are plenty of guys who could give you a 4-4.50 ERA for 2 million or less.

When guys like LaTroy Hawkins are making more than $2M, I find this to be a difficult statement to support. While I am sure this season will end with 06 FA relief pitchers making under $2M and with decent ERAs, I have doubts that those relief pitchers could have been identified this past offseason with much accuracy. Most of those guys are comeback type players of the Williamson ilk and it's difficult, IMO, to build a bp around multiple guys with these type of question marks.

[hoosiers]

Regarding the general payroll, I agree with the general concept that there are some overpaid players on the Os, but I think that comment can be made about most teams and their payroll.

I do think that our potential won-loss record lacks the upside I would expect given the payroll - especially since several of the most important contributors like Bedard, DCab, Loewen, Ray and Markakis are not making much $.

[Sports Guy]

Regarding the general payroll, I agree with the general concept that there are some overpaid players on the Os, but I think that comment can be made about most teams and their payroll.

I do think that our potential won-loss record lacks the upside I would expect given the payroll - especially since several of the most important contributors like Bedard, DCab, Loewen, Ray and Markakis are not making much $.

So what??????

[hoosiers]

I forgot this team operates in your vacuum.

[NewMarketSean]

So what??????

Gotta agree with SG here. Too many times people resort to the old "Other teams do it, so what?" excuse.

I don't buy it for one minute.

The object of the game is to be better than other teams, to be the best... and when they are settling on things "because other teams do it too" then you don't have to wonder why this team has 9 losing seasons.

[Fan4Life]

Gotta agree with SG here. Too many times people resort to the old "Other teams do it, so what?" excuse.

I don't buy it for one minute.

The object of the game is to be better than other teams, to be the best... and when they are settling on things "because other teams do it too" then you don't have to wonder why this team has 9 losing seasons.

What if the move they make is successful? Then do you say, "Congradulations, that was a good move, or, well you could have had the same resuts for less".

[Sports Guy]

I forgot this team operates in your vacuum.

Ok, another team signed GMat for 5/50...Should we do that as well? Should we sign players like him for that kind of contract?

What about the Mets...They traded Kazmir for Zambrano...Should we be trading Rowell for some mid level ML player?

[Sports Guy]

What if the move they make is successful? Then do you say, "Congradulations, that was a good move, or, well you could have had the same resuts for less".

Can't you say both?

Remember, you can't judge a long term contract solely on one year.

So, if Baez gives us a 3-3.50 ERA this year, many people will say it was a great contract...However, if he gives us a 4.25 ERA next year and a 5 RA the year after, all of a sudden the contract is a poor one.

Look at Javy...I was against his contract...Well, he was great in year one, decent and injured in year 2 and awful in year 3. His signing didn't really lead us to bigger better things in terms of free agency, so i would say his signing was bad but after year 1, it looked like a good deal.