SI: Manfred Insists on More Minority Management

[Can_of_corn]

Isn't this easy to see why it's happening? Less black players leads to less black former players that get into coaching. Here's a list of all the coaching staff in baseball.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/List_of_current_Major_League_Baseball_coaching_staffs

There's just not that many black people in baseball anymore.

But minority management includes Hispanics and Asians. Are their numbers decreasing?

[Phantom]

Isn't this easy to see why it's happening? Less black players leads to less black former players that get into coaching. Here's a list of all the coaching staff in baseball.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/List_of_current_Major_League_Baseball_coaching_staffs

There's just not that many black people in baseball anymore.

Let's just say that no matter how you slice it, the player pool and coaching/management pool consist of vastly different demographics, which is not ideal.

[MemorialStadKid]

It's not like there's anything preventing black people from gaining employment in MLB, is there? So pushing for diversity for the sake of diversity seems ironically racist to me. Black people make up 13.2% of the population in the U.S. but yet they make up 78% of NBA players and 68% of NFL players. You don't hear anybody complaining about that (nor should you). How about we let people do what they want in life and stop trying to force feed us this divisive garbage.

Players. We're talking about ownership and management.

To address your first point - which is the same old tired anti-diversity rant - there are things stopping African-Americans from being hired in upper management. It's called being outside of a socially-constructed network based on class and race.

Most African-Americans (even those that are wealthy or upper-middle-class) still do not find themselves in the same socio-political networks as wealthy White citizens. It's been like this since the beginning of our nation. To pretend that these networks don't exist is disingenuous. If you need further comprehension, these places are called fraternities, country clubs, phone calls made by your dad, uncle, brother, etc., or someone deciding that you won't present a "threat" or you'll be a "good fit."

It's the same reason some police departments had no Blacks til recently.

It's the same reason some fire departments had no Blacks til recently.

It's the same reason why NFL didn't have more than one Black head coach until recently.

Black folks are often left out of these situations because they're not even presented as candidates. Why it's so hard to grasp I don't understand?

This is why there needs to be an emphasis on locating different kinds of candidates.

Anyone can be a player if they work hard enough. The same can't be said about sports administrative positions.

MSK

[Can_of_corn]

It's not like there's anything preventing black people from gaining employment in MLB, is there? So pushing for diversity for the sake of diversity seems ironically racist to me. Black people make up 13.2% of the population in the U.S. but yet they make up 78% of NBA players and 68% of NFL players. You don't hear anybody complaining about that (nor should you). How about we let people do what they want in life and stop trying to force feed us this divisive garbage.

Players. We're talking about ownership and management.

To address your first point - which is the same old tired anti-diversity rant - there are things stopping African-Americans from being hired in upper management. It's called being outside of a socially-constructed network based on class and race.

Most African-Americans (even those that are wealthy or upper-middle-class) still do not find themselves in the same socio-political networks as wealthy White citizens. It's been like this since the beginning of our nation. To pretend that these networks don't exist is disingenuous. If you need further comprehension, these places are called fraternities, country clubs, phone calls made by your dad, uncle, brother, etc., or someone deciding that you won't present a "threat" or you'll be a "good fit."

It's the same reason some police departments had no Blacks til recently.

It's the same reason some fire departments had no Blacks til recently.

It's the same reason why NFL didn't have more than one Black head coach until recently.

Black folks are often left out of these situations because they're not even presented as candidates. Why it's so hard to grasp I don't understand?

This is why there needs to be an emphasis on locating different kinds of candidates.

Anyone can be a player if they work hard enough. The same can't be said about sports administrative positions.

MSK

I'm going to go ahead and repeat myself.

Why, if the issue is minority management, are folks only talking about blacks?

[DrungoHazewood]

It's not like there's anything preventing black people from gaining employment in MLB, is there? So pushing for diversity for the sake of diversity seems ironically racist to me. Black people make up 13.2% of the population in the U.S. but yet they make up 78% of NBA players and 68% of NFL players. You don't hear anybody complaining about that (nor should you). How about we let people do what they want in life and stop trying to force feed us this divisive garbage.

You don't think baseball would benefit from the perspective of people outside of the very limited pool of people they tend to pick management candidates from? Or at the very least, don't you think players might be more comfortable if they saw some evidence that management seriously considered the viewpoints of people from their backgrounds? Or... maybe baseball wouldn't have as many issues getting people from the inner city interested in the sport, growing the talent base, if every single manager and almost every GM weren't white dudes between the ages of 35 and 65.

Baseball shouldn't enforce quotas and the hiring of undeserving candidates. But they should consider the impact of their blinders.

[MemorialStadKid]

I'm going to go ahead and repeat myself.

Why, if the issue is minority management, are folks only talking about blacks?

Because - sadly - whenever the issue of diversity arises it becomes a racially-coded discussion about "unqualified" Blacks being considered for jobs. No one ever wants to admit that, but it is a deep implicit bias that rears its ugly head repeatedly.

I consider anyone not a white male a diversity candidate. I just notice that there's a very nasty vein of anger whenever the subject of diversity and jobs comes up.

MSK

[DrungoHazewood]

Why, if the issue is minority management, are folks only talking about blacks?

Probably because of the history of the United States with regards to black people. And the fact that there's declining participation in baseball by black kids, who could be seriously beefing up the talent base of the sport, at the same time there are few black role models in baseball management.

[MemorialStadKid]

Probably because of the history of the United States with regards to black people. And the fact that there's declining participation in baseball by black kids, who could be seriously beefing up the talent base of the sport, at the same time there are few black role models in baseball management.

I wonder if all MLB teams' 2015 media guides are now available online for free? I know many teams have no Black people at all in the front office.

MSK

[MemorialStadKid]

Okay -

Here are the Orioles' media guides from 2013 going backward.

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/bal/fan_forum/60_anniversary_mediaguides.jsp

As of 2013, there were 4 Blacks behind the scenes (non coaches). 2 Black guys in the mailroom. 1 Black woman as a receptionist. 1 Black woman as the group sales rep.

Absolutely no one in positions of power.

Progress.

MSK

[MemorialStadKid]

So you're saying that there's something preventing certain people from going to college or getting whatever training is necessary to get a sports administration (or any other) position? I hate to break it to you, but anyone can go to college and get a degree. There are also plenty of programs out there to help you pay for school if you don't have enough money. Heck, they have some college funds that are ONLY for minorities. There is also nothing preventing anyone from working hard. It's the year 2015. I don't buy your "certain groups of people can't be successful without intervention from external forces" argument. This helpless, dependent defeatist attitude helps nobody.

I've provided evidence for my POV. If you wish to revert to a position that denies the reality of institutionalized racial bias I don't know what to tell you.

Who said that certain groups couldn't be successful in all avenues?

We're SPECIFICALLY discussing sports ownership and management positions which have had a long history of exclusion for people of color and specifically Blacks.

If you look at the Orioles media guides, there's a page for investors and there's a page of higher ranking people within the organization. It's all White.

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/bal/fan_forum/60_anniversary_mediaguides.jsp

Is that because EVERYONE else was lazy or expected a "hand out?" I doubt it.

MSK

[Number5]

Guys, I think this discussion is getting a bit too political, don;t you?

[MemorialStadKid]

Well, you're putting words in my mouth. There's no doubt discrimination happened decades ago in Major League Baseball, but we're talking about the year 2015. Even if racism were to happen in MLB nowadays, it's not something that MLB tolerates which means it's not institutional racism. If you could prove that there's institutional racism in Major League Baseball (which is a very serious accusation) in the year 2015 then I'd like to see it. But unfortunately, opening up the Orioles media guide and saying "look at all the white folk" isn't proof of anything.

The exact definition of "institutional racism": failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their color, culture of ethnic origin.

Provide proof that MLB is guilty of that.

It's funny that you chose the show the very end of the definition while completely ignoring the broader analysis - i.e.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism

So let's take a look at how this plays out.

MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL as an entity is does not condone racism in the same way colleges don't "condone" racism but there are countless racial incidents on college campuses each year that are well-reported and well-documented.

MLB has strict POLICIES in regards to discrimination in the same way the US Constitution and Bill of Rights have explicit policy against racism in the form of amendments. You cannot however LEGISLATE ATTITUDE.

Institutional racism is the differential access to the goods, services, and opportunities of society. When the differential access becomes integral to institutions, it becomes common practice, making it difficult to rectify. Eventually, this racism dominates public bodies, private corporations, public and private universities, and is reinforced by the actions of conformists and newcomers. Another difficulty in reducing institutionalized racism is that there is no sole, true identifiable perpetrator. When racism is built into the institution, it emerges as the collective action of the population.

This goes into the social networking side of it. If you've been historically denied access to an organization via social networking contacts (or the lack thereof) then the removal of official segregation doesn't change anything at all. Then we're talking about INDIVIDUAL TEAMS and their front offices. This is why MLB wants there to be more minority involvement BECAUSE the old boys network is well known to exist amongst owners and so on. Without someone pushing them in the right direction, they'll just keep doing the same old thing without realizing it.

Professor James M. Jones postulates three major types of racism: (i) Personally mediated, (ii) internalized, and (iii) institutionalized.[3] Personally mediated racism includes the specific social attitudes inherent to racially prejudiced action (bigoted differential assumptions about abilities, motives, and the intentions of others according to), discrimination (the differential actions and behaviours towards others according to their race), stereotyping, commission, and omission (disrespect, suspicion, devaluation, and dehumanization). Internalized racism is the acceptance, by members of the racially stigmatized people, of negative perceptions about their own abilities and intrinsic worth, characterized by low self-esteem, and low esteem of others like them. This racism can be manifested through embracing "whiteness" (e.g. stratification by skin colour in non-white communities), self-devaluation (e.g. racial slurs, nicknames, rejection of ancestral culture, etc.), and resignation, helplessness, and hopelessness (e.g. dropping out of school, failing to vote, engaging in health-risk practices, etc.).

Persistent negative stereotypes fuel institutional racism, and influence interpersonal relations. Racial stereotyping contributes to patterns of racial residential segregation and Redlining, and shape views about crime, crime policy, and welfare policy, especially if the contextual information is stereotype-consistent.[4]

Institutional racism is distinguished from racial bigotry by the existence of institutional systemic policies, practices and economic and political structures which place minority racial and ethnic groups at a disadvantage in relation to an institution’s racial or ethnic majority. One example is public school budgets (including local levies and bonds) and the quality of teachers, which in the U.S. are often correlated with property values: rich neighborhoods are more likely to be more 'white' and to have better teachers and more money for education, even in public schools. Restrictive housing contracts and bank lending policies have also been listed as forms of institutional racism. Other examples sometimes described as institutional racism are racial profiling by security guards and police, use of stereotyped racial caricatures, the under- and mis-representation of certain racial groups in the mass media, and race-based barriers to gainful employment and professional advancement. Additionally, differential access to goods, services, and opportunities of society can be included within the term institutional racism, such as unpaved streets and roads, inherited socio-economic disadvantage, and "standardized" tests (each ethnic group prepared for it differently; many are poorly prepared).

Individual bias can directly influence an institutional bias if the person in question is a DECISION MAKER. Whether this is an owner, a GM, an investor, whatever. I'm not saying the Orioles front office is racist, I'm saying that there's a social networking system based on class and race that can contribute to the exclusion of people of color unintentionally. Sometimes, it's not so unintentional.

There are still people out there like former Reds owner Marge Schott.

In any case, if you're hardwired to believe that racism doesn't exist or doesn't play a large factor in hiring practices (there's significant data on resumes with "Black sounding" names being rejected regardless of qualifications - i.e. 1) http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=124232 2) http://www.cbsnews.com/news/black-names-a-resume-burden/) then no amount of real world evidence can sway you.

Baseball is run and owned by people.

People can be bigoted and sometimes the people doing the hiring are bigots. That's just the way it's ALWAYS been.

MSK

[MemorialStadKid]

And here's a breakdown of ownership vs players in terms of ethnic background:

http://www.diversityinc.com/news/major-league-white-pro-sports-arent-seem/

MSK

[24fps]

So you're saying that there's something preventing certain people from going to college or getting whatever training is necessary to get a sports administration (or any other) position? I hate to break it to you, but anyone can go to college and get a degree. There are also plenty of programs out there to help you pay for school if you don't have enough money. Heck, they have some college funds that are ONLY for minorities. There is also nothing preventing anyone from working hard. It's the year 2015. I don't buy your "certain groups of people can't be successful without intervention from external forces" argument. This helpless, dependent defeatist attitude helps nobody.

How much of a professional MLB front office executive's or administrator's job do you believe can be learned in a classroom? And while we're at it, when was racial bias at the personal level eradicated in American business?

[Moose Milligan]

And here's a breakdown of ownership vs players in terms of ethnic background:

http://www.diversityinc.com/news/major-league-white-pro-sports-arent-seem/

MSK

Shocking stat of the day, most sports teams are owned by old rich white guys!