New Maese Article: Ouch!

[amateurfan]

No its not. Cal was clearly better.

You need to come up with some support. Show some numbers, because we all, or at least should, know them, and I don't see what you see.

[Why Not?]

Personally, I've never liked the Babe Ruth statue outside the stadium. It's an attempt to hog glory away from the Yankees (and I hate the Yankees, but the O's have enough history of their not to require status from another organization). It makes no sense because there's no reason behind it. Either erect statues of great Orioles players, or erect statues of every great MLB player who was born in Baltimore.

No reason behind it? Seriously?

Babe Ruth is not just a great MLB player. He is the greatest player in baseball history and a MAJOR historical figure, not to mention an American icon. He is far more than a Yankee.

[SHAWN555]

No its not. Cal was clearly better.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I forgot you are the only person on this site who is right, i will just go ahead and add you to the ole blocked list so I don't have to waste your time by questioning your greatness.

Cal played everyday, won two gold gloves, two mvps and was rookie of the year and won one championship.

Brooks was the greatest defensive third baseman ever, won mvp once, won gold gloves 16 times and won two championships.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ripkeca01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/robinbr01.shtml

Even though you don't respect other peoples opinions, I can respect someone who says Cal was better, but in my book Brooks was slightly better.

[ScottieBaseball]

This stuff gets so old, why don't they do this, why don't they do that. They could put 10 statues of Brooks and will not win any more game. Plus it will not draw any more people. Their focus needs to be building a winner, if they will do that I for one will never complain about the lack of a Brooks or any other players statue.

Just because it won't add to the on-the-field product doesn't make it irrelevant. I realize I'm a sappy, sentimentalist almost to a fault, but the fact that the club isn't bending over backwards to get (arguably) the greatest player to ever put on an O's uniform involved with the organization and involved with the fans is inexcusable.

[Sports Guy]

You need to come up with some support. Show some numbers, because we all, or at least should, know them, and I don't see what you see.

Career WARP3:

Cal: 172.4

BRooks: 106.7

WARP3 is a counting stat..Cal played more games but only by a little more than 100.

If you go by WARP3, Cal had 8 years better than Brooks' best year and 2 others that were pretty much equal.

He is the clear winner here.

Career OPS:

Cal: 787

Brooks: 723

Career OPS+:

Cal: 112

Brooks: 104

Cal had many more doubles and homers....His career BA was 9 points higher.

Plus, of course, the streak, MVPs, ROY, etc.....

Brooks was a better fielder than Cal and had more triples...That's about it.

Cal was clearly the better player....Every stat tells you that.

The case can be made that Brooks isn't a top 10 third baseman of all time...I think he is but the case can/has been made.

Cal is #2 for SS....That is pretty much universally accepted.

Hell, one writer talked about Ripken being one of the top 20 players ever.

[ScottieBaseball]

Career WARP3:

Cal: 172.4

BRooks: 106.7

WARP3 is a counting stat..Cal played more games but only by a little more than 100.

If you go by WARP3, Cal had 8 years better than Brooks' best year and 2 others that were pretty much equal.

He is the clear winner here.

Career OPS:

Cal: 787

Brooks: 723

Career OPS+:

Cal: 112

Brooks: 104

Cal had many more doubles and homers....His career BA was 9 points higher.

Plus, of course, the streak, MVPs, ROY, etc.....

Brooks was a better fielder than Cal and had more triples...That's about it.

Cal was clearly the better player....Every stat tells you that.

The case can be made that Brooks isn't a top 10 third baseman of all time...I think he is but the case can/has been made.

Cal is #2 for SS....That is pretty much universally accepted.

Hell, one writer talked about Ripken being one of the top 20 players ever.

Great post Rob. Until I read that I was a Brooks>Cal guy, but I think you just changed my mind.

[Sports Guy]

Great post Rob. Until I read that I was a Brooks>Cal guy, but I think you just changed my mind.

Yea, people need to understand this isn't a slight to Brooks.

Cal had an incredible career...I don't think people, even Orioles fans, realize how great he really was.

[Moose Milligan]

Maybe we could put one out there for some other Md born HOF'ers. We should be proud of them too.

Lefty Grove

Jimmie Foxx

Al Kaline

Look, all I am saying is the OPACY is not the place for a Babe Ruth statue in my mind. It should be reserrved for Orioles

The most important...don't get it confused with the best ever, they are two totally different things....the most important baseball player ever deserves a statue outside of whatever ballpark is in his hometown. It's not a slight on anyone else.

Where should it stop? Brooks gets one, then Cal deserves one for being co-Mr. Oriole. Then Frank deserves one for being the catalyst of the first two championship teams. Then Palmer deserves one for being on all six World Series teams. Then Earl Weaver deserves one for being one of the best managers of all time. Then Eddie Murray deserves one for being the last retired number to not have one. Then Chuck Thompson deserves one for being the guy people remember more then anything about the Orioles throughout their history. Then Edward Bennett Williams deserves one for building Oriole Park and saving baseball in Baltimore. Then William Donald Schaffer deserves one for the same reason. Then Janet Marie Smith deserves one for controlling the design of the ballpark into its current form, making it the best ballpark in baseball and sparking the biggest movement in sports architecture (if not American architecture) in forty years. And on. And on. And on...

Don't forget Boog gets one for having a stellar barbecue stand!

Yea, people need to understand this isn't a slight to Brooks.

Cal had an incredible career...I don't think people, even Orioles fans, realize how great he really was.

It's been said a billion times before, but Cal also paved the way for the larger and offensive minded SS's. He changed the way the position was viewed and that doesn't show up in the stat sheet...

The Gold Glove argument is weak, too. I'm not trying to slight Brooks on winning 16 because anytime you win an award 16 times, thats mighty impressive. But Cal definitely deserved more than his 2 and everyone here knows that. One of the biggest award slights I can recall is Cal not winning the 1990 Gold Glove while making three errors on the entire year and setting the record for consecutive games without an error at the position. Ozzie Guillen won it, somehow.

[24fps]

Shocker.

Brooks, Frank, Eddie, Cal and Earl all deserves statues here. And it could easily be done.

If you include Earl, you also have to include an ump so he has a face to get into.

[Miller192]

I don't think statues are a big deal.

I actually think the numbers are kind of cool.

[NCRaven]

I'm joining this argument late and haven't read all the posts. I think the world of Brooks Robinson. But....

Johnny Unitas was the best player in Colts history and he has a statue. Babe Ruth was the best player in Orioles history and he has a statue. Brooks was beloved in his era, but no more so than Cal in his. And he wasn't even the best player on his team, Frank Robinson was.

IMO, this is just another chance to criticize Angelos and nothing more.

[El Gordo]

If you don't count Robin Roberts then Brooks was the first modern day O to make the Hall of Fame. I'd love to see an exhibit like the Negro Leaguse Museum, with great O's at every position,

[grady41]

I think people who never saw the Birds when Brooks played with them cannot understand what Brooks meant to Baltimore. From 1966 to 1983 the Birds were the class of baseball and for a majority of that time Brooks was the face of the team. Stats aside it is he who derseves the statue, and I bet Palmer would agree to that as well. The team from 1966 till 1972 was a great team, Brooks,Frank, Boog, Palmer, McNally, Cuellar and of course Belanger, Blair and D Johnson , this was a great team and younger people who never saw them play dont understand. Even Ralph Salvon was considered the best at what he did, (ask Palmer) the team was pure class.

From 1978 till 1983 Eddie was the face, till Cal passed him. Times have been tough since then, yet Cal always stuck it out with class and that is why he will always be loved in Baltimore.

Brooks started it, Cal carried the torch, give the statue to both, they deserve it. Brooks should get the first one though.

Just my 2 cents!

[mikezpen]

I grew up watching Brooks. As good as Ripken was, I'd take Brooks Robinson in a heartbeat. This is just another example of the miserable little owner ruining something.

[Mike B]

Cal should have one before Brooks, especially at OPACY.

I think they both deserve one but the reality is Palmer is just as deserving(if not moreso) than Brooks.

I think all 3 of them should be given one.

I agree that all three deserve one along with F Robby but that is not practical. Brooks was the first great Oriole, and to be honest OPACY does not have a thing to do with it. Also in all honesty they all have placks on the wall and are in the O's HOF. To me the real issue, is that Brooks who would be a charter member in the nice guy HOF is basically estranged from the Orioles. That needs to be fixed, immediately. Seeing him at Camden Yards being Brooks is better than a statue. He would return a lot of the feel good Oriole tradition that has been missing since Elrod died. Peter needs to reach out to Brooksie and end the impasse. Brooks wanted to be the front guy for the O's and if the media can be believed got stood up. That is just not right.