Dan Duquette is not shocked by anything. The Numbers that some pitchers got were "Staggering"

[Ohfan67]

Yep, Royals suck over that time period too, that GM needs to go!

I wasn't ragging on DD per se. My point is that the Orioles organization has more than earned any and all skepticism focused on it.

[DrungoHazewood]

I wasn't ragging on DD per se. My point is that the Orioles organization has more than earned any and all skepticism focused on it.

I'd be careful with the any and all around here. This is the place where midway through 2012, 2013, and 2014 (not to mention 2015) we had more than our share of horror and disgust at the sorry state of the Orioles organization. I can certainly find threads advocating a total rebuild, or at least a serious retooling involving trading the core of the team in June of 2014.

[Number5]

I wasn't ragging on DD per se. My point is that the Orioles organization has more than earned any and all skepticism focused on it.

How so? By having the best record in the American League over the past four years? There is certainly nothing wrong with legitimate criticism. Going over the top with baseless negativity is another thing altogether, IMO. Frankly, I don't understand the logic in non-stop complaining and bitter argument over every single move that is made. Posters taking this tact somehow don't realize how that affects their credibility. When someone actually attempts to bitterly assault the intelligence and logic of moves like trading Clevenger for Trumbo and Riefenhauser, as well as signing Kim to a very low-risk contract, it is very hard for me to take anything they post seriously. I have to consider these unreasoned tirades when I view any other complaint they wish to air regarding the Orioles. I guess it is like the childhood fable about the boy who cried wolf. If you complain about, literally, everything, chances are none of your complaints will be taken seriously.

As an example, Tony has voiced his opposition to the decision to give Wieters a QO. He voiced that opinion before the QO was offered. He still clearly feels it was a mistake. His reasons are sound. Tony isn't posting numerous posts in multiple threads screaming about how every move the Orioles are making is stupid. I happen to disagree with him on whether the QO should have been made to Wieters, but I have an understanding of what he is saying and acknowledge that he has some good points and makes a good case. If he had hundreds of negative posts about every transaction and every word that DD says, it is unlikely that I would lend any credence whatsoever to what his opinion about Wieters is.

I was upset at DD's words at Fanfest about the money earmarked for Davis being available for other players, but not for one player, and not this year. I am still miffed by that. I don't look at everything through orange-colored glasses. To me, the apparent refusal to consider adequately replacing Davis in the lineup if a reasonable agreement can't be reached with him, is a huge strategic error. I realize that this is quite probably being driven by ownership, rather than DD, but it is not good, IMO, in any case. I would like to think that the very fact that I don't complain willy-nilly about every little thing helps to allow my points to at least be considered. Perhaps not, but that is my view.

This is not to say that I believe that people shouldn't post what they want. If you want to disagree with every single move that is made and word that is said, be my guest. Just don't expect to be taken seriously, at least by me.

[SteveO]

On the one hand, you can't lay the 14 consecutive losing seasons at the feet of Duquette. On the other hand, his accomplishments over the last four years are partly due to moves made by his predecessors, and he doesn't get a free pass from scrutiny just because the team went to the playoffs twice in four years -- especially after his team dropped 15 games in the standings last season.

What bothers me about what I am hearing now is that the price of pitching was hardly unforeseeable. Before this offseason you had Kershaw 7/$215 mm, Scherzer 7/$210 mm, Verlander 7/$180 mm. You know that due to escalating revenues, the price of free agent players goes up just about every season. You can look at forecasts from MLBTradeRumors and fangraphs and they are right in line with the contracts that have been handed out. So, there's simply no reason for Duquette to be shocked at what pitchers are costing.

Moreover, if Duquette isn't comfortable paying those prices, then he simply can't be trading away good pitching prospects for rental players on a regular basis. It's not enough to say "we have to draft and develop our own pitchers," you have to go out and do it, and you need to keep them. I would have been perfectly fine standing pat with our pitching this winter if we had EdRod and Davies in the fold. But we traded them for two-month rentals, and now we're going to feel the consequences.

Well said.

It's DD's job to have some clue about how the market will play out. He is not some fan posting on a message board, he is a MLB GM, with numerous tools at his disposal to evaluate these things. If a writer on MLBTR or Fangraphs can peg the market close to correctly then so can DD.

The idea that the numbers are shocking to a baseball professional is laughable unless that person is incompetent.Baseball is awash in money, owners are not even trying to hide this. The size of the contract being given out, is no excuse for not improving this rotation that desperately needed to be improved. If the Orioles believe the prices are out of control, then they are living in a fantasy land of Peter's making.

The problem with the Orioles is that they won't commit to an entire rebuild and they will not commit to spending the amount of money that there inability to develop players dictates they must in order to remain competitive. To me this is the recipe that helped contribute to the 14 years of losing we witnessed. Baseball is not a game that is kind to teams that do things halfway. In this game you either have to spend the money or develope players. You can win with a payroll the Orioles have had for the past several years. That is predicated though on the idea, that you have a stream or players that you have developed to fill roles and replace guys you can no longer afford. You cannot fail to develop players, then whine about how much it cost to sign free agents.

[Camden_yardbird]

The Orioles usually get upended by the amount of money that gets spent early in free agency, we see this every year, and I blame that in part on not managing expectations with the owner, something I think is part the GM (whether AM or DD) and part having to tip toe around an empirically difficult owner.

One thing they do well however, whether by design or not, is wait out the market. We are now seeing a market where every big spender has spent and yet you still have supply available. Davis and Upton will command big contracts, but without the big spenders if the Orioles are willing to expand payroll there are opportunities around.

Unfortunately none of those involve great pitching options but they can make improvements to the lineup.

[Frobby]

The problem with the Orioles is that they won't commit to an entire rebuild and they will not commit to spending the amount of money that there inability to develop players dictates they must in order to remain competitive.

I think very few teams in the Orioles' position would commit to a total rebuild right now. But if the O's are having a losing season in July, it might be more palatable to bite that bullet.

[Can_of_corn]

I think very few teams in the Orioles' position would commit to a total rebuild right now. But if the O's are having a losing season in July, it might be more palatable to bite that bullet.

You are right. No team would extend Hardy and O'Day and then commit to a total rebuild.

Would there have been teams that let them walk?

Sure.

[weams]

How so? By having the best record in the American League over the past four years? There is certainly nothing wrong with legitimate criticism. Going over the top with baseless negativity is another thing altogether, IMO. Frankly, I don't understand the logic in non-stop complaining and bitter argument over every single move that is made. Posters taking this tact somehow don't realize how that affects their credibility. When someone actually attempts to bitterly assault the intelligence and logic of moves like trading Clevenger for Trumbo and Riefenhauser, as well as signing Kim to a very low-risk contract, it is very hard for me to take anything they post seriously. I have to consider these unreasoned tirades when I view any other complaint they wish to air regarding the Orioles. I guess it is like the childhood fable about the boy who cried wolf. If you complain about, literally, everything, chances are none of your complaints will be taken seriously.

As an example, Tony has voiced his opposition to the decision to give Wieters a QO. He voiced that opinion before the QO was offered. He still clearly feels it was a mistake. His reasons are sound. Tony isn't posting numerous posts in multiple threads screaming about how every move the Orioles are making is stupid. I happen to disagree with him on whether the QO should have been made to Wieters, but I have an understanding of what he is saying and acknowledge that he has some good points and makes a good case. If he had hundreds of negative posts about every transaction and every word that DD says, it is unlikely that I would lend any credence whatsoever to what his opinion about Wieters is.

I was upset at DD's words at Fanfest about the money earmarked for Davis being available for other players, but not for one player, and not this year. I am still miffed by that. I don't look at everything through orange-colored glasses. To me, the apparent refusal to consider adequately replacing Davis in the lineup if a reasonable agreement can't be reached with him, is a huge strategic error. I realize that this is quite probably being driven by ownership, rather than DD, but it is not good, IMO, in any case. I would like to think that the very fact that I don't complain willy-nilly about every little thing helps to allow my points to at least be considered. Perhaps not, but that is my view.

This is not to say that I believe that people shouldn't post what they want. If you want to disagree with every single move that is made and word that is said, be my guest. Just don't expect to be taken seriously, at least by me.

I appreciate your viewpoint. If Tony-OH were posting negatively about every move that the Orioles made...I'd be worried.

[weams]

Great post. I totally agree. I'd add that sweeping generalizations rarely earn much respect too.

Btw, it is looking more like your take on DD's comments at FanFest were on the money. It isn't sure yet, but you certainly appear right and me ... Well... Not so much.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I took his words to mean Davis or bust. I do think the money is earmarked and not by Dan.

[WEAVERMAN]

On the one hand, you can't lay the 14 consecutive losing seasons at the feet of Duquette. On the other hand, his accomplishments over the last four years are partly due to moves made by his predecessors, and he doesn't get a free pass from scrutiny just because the team went to the playoffs twice in four years -- especially after his team dropped 15 games in the standings last season.

What bothers me about what I am hearing now is that the price of pitching was hardly unforeseeable. Before this offseason you had Kershaw 7/$215 mm, Scherzer 7/$210 mm, Verlander 7/$180 mm. You know that due to escalating revenues, the price of free agent players goes up just about every season. You can look at forecasts from MLBTradeRumors and fangraphs and they are right in line with the contracts that have been handed out. So, there's simply no reason for Duquette to be shocked at what pitchers are costing.

Moreover, if Duquette isn't comfortable paying those prices, then he simply can't be trading away good pitching prospects for rental players on a regular basis. It's not enough to say "we have to draft and develop our own pitchers," you have to go out and do it, and you need to keep them. I would have been perfectly fine standing pat with our pitching this winter if we had EdRod and Davies in the fold. But we traded them for two-month rentals, and now we're going to feel the consequences.

You nailed it Frobby.