At What Point, Do You Hold DD Accountable, If Any?

[Crazysilver03]

There's people on here who say they're Orioles fans that are legitimately happy that the Kansas City baseball team beat us, yet I'm the bad guy. Alright.

No, you are the "bad guy" because you act like a child when people talked about signing Gordon and you stuck your fingers in your ear and screamed "na Na na I don't hear you na na na" because you built some narrative in your head where the Royals are some bad guy out of a Marvel comic.

[Orioles West]

Last offseason was putrid (most of us realize why).

This offseason is NOT over.

However, let's discuss how you feel as a fan if little else is done. Would you be happy? Disappointed? Apathetic? What would make you be critical of DD? Would you like to see his contract extended? What say you?

No point in being critical of DD since ultimately his hands are tied by the owner?

I hold the O's accountable everyday, but for the most part, I'm good with all the moves they have made this winter or attempted. Last winter, we all knew they needed another solid starter to compete, they didn't do it and it was the biggest factor in landing 81-81. This year, we all know they still need another solid starter and a power bat or two, beyond the additions already. I highly doubt DD's idea was 150 million on Davis or bust. I think he would have preferred to reallocate those funds on other potential improvements.

The O's are spending more than ever, and it is always easy for me to spend PA's money, but I don't quite understand the current ownership position. We seem to be pretty close to making another serious run, yet, don't seem to be willing to overspend on anyone other than Davis.

So, all of other low risk moves DD makes to try to improve the team - those we can whine about if we must, but every O's GM contends with the unique PA family.

[Aristotelian]

DD had a very bad year in 2015. The Webb dump.cost us a pick with no.return. missed on.De Aza and Snider (although got Tunnel.back). Never replaced Cruz although we don't know how much of that was payroll.constraints. . We all k ow about Arrieta in hindsight. I did not like GI ing up.Davies in the Parra deal.

Still let's not forget DD was executive of the year in 2014.Hit big.on Pearce and.Cruz. turned Britton into an elite.close. got us Miller for the playoff run (albeit at the cost of a promising pitcher). Chen was huge for both playoff runs. DD gets credit for Miguel too.

As a GM you are never going to bat 1.000. I am not ready to.crucify DD just yet. He's made some good moves, some bad. Biggest thing is he hasn't traded our top prospects or gotten us into any Cano or Hanley deals that would be disastrous for a team like the Os.

[El Gordo]

You may have had the opinion that Aoki and Rasmus were far less risky than the guys DD signed, but I don't think it is that obvious. We ran a poll when we traded Snider and literally 95% of posters preferred that trade to signing Rasmus.

I've said this a few times, but will say it again: everybody knew that the outfielders we signed collectively would be a downgrade from Cruz and Markakis. But even so, they underperformed the realistic expectations for them. To a man, they hit worse that every single objective third-party projection. Adding insult to injury, de Aza did better the minute he left here, and Parra did much worse the minute he arrived. DD's plan did not work, but that doesn't mean it was an awful plan. He rolled snake eyes.

I agree, and also he had Markakis on the verge of signing 4/40 M when they found out the operation was needed and the Angelos' pulled that offer back. I think DD would have made it any way were he not constrained and I also think he might have given Cruz the extra year. JMO.

[Frobby]

Because Alex Gordon is a bad human being. Everyone associated with that team are bad human beings. They made that week a living hell. It'd be a slap in the face to the entire fan base to bring someone like that to this team as a daily reminder of what happened. I don't care how good someone is on defense, I could not and will never root for someone like that.

1. This is a ridiculous statement, just standing on its own.

2. The fact that some posters here wanted us to sign Gordon does not equate to them being happy that KC beat us in the ALCS two years ago. You have no basis for that statement.

[Crazysilver03]

Because Alex Gordon is a bad human being. Everyone associated with that team are bad human beings. They made that week a living hell. It'd be a slap in the face to the entire fan base to bring someone like that to this team as a daily reminder of what happened. I don't care how good someone is on defense, I could not and will never root for someone like that.

This is beyond absurd. And that is beyond taking sports to seriously.

[OFFNY]

From an organization that had zero winning seasons in the 14 years prior to his arrival. I know it's popular to talk about accountability and not accepting failure and expecting excellence and this stuff, but sports is a zero-sum game. But we're fans who have little or no influence over how the team is run, so us holding Duquette or Angelos accountable is a fiction, it's a conceit. Also, in every year the wins and losses in a league have to equal each other. Half the teams, give or take, are going to have a losing record each and every year. But fans always expect not only wins, but wins the right way that set up more wins in the future.

If you'd asked the Hangout in 2008 what they thought of a future that played out as 2012-2015 did I'd guess 30% of the board would have donated a kidney to science to get to that reality. Now that we're actually there it's a firing offense.

Look, I'm not thrilled about everything, and occasionally confused and perplexed by decisions. But I try to not let pursuit of the ideal stand in the way of enjoying the pretty good. I saw 1985-88 and 1998-2011, I know what bad baseball from a lost organization looks like. It ain't four winning seasons in four years.

I've always wondered about that when I hear/have heard fans make statements such as, "Losing is not acceptable for this team/franchise. We fans demand a winner here!"

Well, if losing is not acceptable HERE, then what team/franchise's fans SHOULD accept losing?

Until MLB, the NFL, the NBA, and the NHL find a touring Washington Generals team (and count the wins over the Generals teams in the league standings) for their respective leagues, then major professional sports (as you stated) will indeed continue to be a zero sum game, and losing seasons will have to occur somewhere for some teams and their fan bases.

Losing is acceptable (especially in MLB where there is a credible and important minor league system to produce future pro players) as long as the front office is building toward a future competitiveness. That's what our prior GM did. He fielded teams that he knew would lose, traded away good MLB players for prospects while weakening the major league team and showing no ego that the major league winning % was important to him.

I fully acknowledge that DD has maintained nearly a .550 winning percentage in his time here and would not deny that he has made numerous good moves to supplement the talent base to get the Os into the playoffs twice in his four years. But he inherited a pretty strong talent base with numerous players capable of 2-4+ WAR years and multiple all-star appearances. But much of our success of these four years has been brought about by taking a sledgehammer to our future competitiveness by trading away quality minor league pieces including multiple top 100 prospects and forfeiting and trading away multiple first round, supplemental and second round draft picks and international slots. To boot, none of the MLB players acquired in those trades are with the Orioles today.

In fact, I would argue, and have posted this frequently, that the Os would have had the same if not more success and would have a significantly better MLB future AND farm system if DD had never made ANY trades and simply fielded a team with what he inherited plus some free agents and kept our picks. I think that is pretty damning and it really doesn't require anyone to be distracted by posters waxing philosophic about 14 straight losing seasons. Those losing seasons should not change the context with which the results of our current GM should be judged. Even several years after AM left, with just the drafting of Gausman, we would have a quality, cheap opening day 2016 rotation of Jake, Tillman, Gausman, EdRod and Davies and a bullpen anchored by O'Day and Britton.

The current state of our major league team is mediocre and the path to competitiveness at the MLB level again would have to involve dealing excessive key draft picks, signing expensive FAs and trading quality prospects. The minor league system is considered worse than mediocre by most analysts who I believe will place it in the bottom quartile.

The offseason is not over and I will consider it something just short of a miracle if we still have our projected 2016 draft picks - which is my only goal for the offseason. Most other courses would involve our GM making more risky moves that take away more of our future. If DD commits to a proper rebuild for a season or two, great, otherwise the days when our next GM does make such a commitment can't get here soon enough.

It's still a zero-sum game (as Drungo asserted), and unless every team goes 81-81 every year, and/or teams take turns making the playoffs and winning pennants, you are going to have teams that predominantly win, teams that occasionally win, teams that occasionally lose, and teams that often lose.

Which again begs the question, which city/franchise should losing be acceptable to? And/or, which city/franchise should demand a perennial winner, or at the very least, not accept a perennial loser?

[OFFNY]

Because Alex Gordon is a bad human being. Everyone associated with that team are bad human beings. They made that week a living hell. It'd be a slap in the face to the entire fan base to bring someone like that to this team as a daily reminder of what happened. I don't care how good someone is on defense, I could not and will never root for someone like that.

I don't think that you really believe this.

I suspect that you say things like this to get a rise out of people ....... and it works well.

[hoosiers]

It's still a zero-sum game (as Drungo asserted), and unless every team goes 81-81 every year, and/or teams take turns making the playoffs and winning pennants, you are going to have teams that predominantly win, teams that occasionally win, teams that occasionally lose, and teams that often lose.

Which again begs the question, which city/franchise should losing be acceptable to? And/or, which city/franchise should demand a perennial winner, or at the very least, not accept a perennial loser?

Why don't you just sprinkle fairy dust in the rain instead of asking silly rhetorical questions and making earth shattering observations that, after years of analysis of reams of baseball data, some teams win and some lose in the middle of a quality discussion about our GM?

Or, as a quality poster, why don't you join the discussion about our GM in a productive way?

[Redskins Rick]

Why don't you just sprinkle fairy dust in the rain instead of asking silly rhetorical questions and making earth shattering observations that, after years of analysis of reams of baseball data, some teams win and some lose in the middle of a quality discussion about our GM?

Or, as a quality poster, why don't you join the discussion about our GM in a productive way?

The title of the thread is slanted towards a smear campaign against DD, and he got the results he so desired.

[Redskins Rick]

There's close to a 100% chance that 2014 was the best and last opportunity the Orioles had to win a World Series in my lifetime and they stole it. I'll never forgive them for that.

Thats a totally stupid thing to say.

[OFFNY]

Why don't you just sprinkle fairy dust in the rain instead of asking silly rhetorical questions and making earth shattering observations that, after years of analysis of reams of baseball data, some teams win and some lose in the middle of a quality discussion about our GM?

Or, as a quality poster, why don't you join the discussion about our GM in a productive way?

I can talk about (and critique) our front office, as I have done numerous times in the past.

My response (in response to Drungo's comment) are to those that assert that "losing is unacceptable," without giving a thought about the facts of winning and losing in sports. And I don't think that there is anything silly about it.

[Ripken]

Without really knowing what goes on in the warehouse it's tough to blame DD on much. It sure seems like PA is the problem. Whatever it is, we're coming very close to the second straight terrible off season, which, if not soon corrected, will leave us little hope of contending in 2016. At least we'll have several picks in the top 100 but that does almost nothing to help the next 3 seasons. Pick a road. Either road. Sell off all prospects in an effort to win now OR trade/let high priced guys leave and build around Manny and a few others. Instead he's awkwardly straddling that line and making a mess we'll not soon recover from.

[PaulFolk]

There's close to a 100% chance that 2014 was the best and last opportunity the Orioles had to win a World Series in my lifetime and they stole it. I'll never forgive them for that.

Sounds like a personal problem. But in any case, what does it have to do with Duquette?

[Redskins Rick]

I can talk about (and critique) our front office, as I have done numerous times in the past.

My response (in response to Drungo's comment) are to those that assert that "losing is unacceptable," without giving a thought about the facts of winning and losing in sports. And I don't think that there is anything silly about it.

OFFNY, I respect you and I respect your right to your opinion, which we all have.

Critique the front office is fair. Heck, even DD himself owned up to making mistakes last season.

But, for me, I draw the line, at the over the top, they stole this team from me, we wont see another winning team in my lifetime crap.

Afterall is said and done, this its still just a sport and where grown adults are paid to play a game where we pay to watch them pay.

Its not the holocaust.