Three members of the starting rotation are free agents after 2017

[Aristotelian]

I am not saying blow it up now...just don't do anything that keeps us from blowing it up in July. Wasting a draft pick on Upton with a 2,year opt out, or signing Davis for 7 years, for example.

[Can_of_corn]

This is absolutely not the time to 'blow it up'.

For all we know Gausman, Bundy, Harvey, Wilson, et. al are about to have a 2015 Mets redoux. Don't blow that chance!

Come July...who knows. Starting a firesale to build around Manny is absolutely a possible outcome for 2016.

If you have a firesale in July Manny isn't going to be around long enough to rebuild around.

You'd be better off adding him to the auction.

[oriole]

Uhh...what am I reading? Window closed? Jones, Machado, Schoop, Gausman, strong bullpen...that's just the tip of the iceberg regarding good things coming from 2015 and beyond. I really don't see the point in the constant notion of negative projections. If you want sexy moves and bad free agent signings then go root for the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, or Angels. The Orioles are bad for your mental health if you assume a losing season because we didn't give David Price 200 million dollars.

[Can_of_corn]

Uhh...what am I reading? Window closed? Jones, Machado, Schoop, Gausman, strong bullpen...that's just the tip of the iceberg regarding good things coming from 2015 and beyond. I really don't see the point in the constant notion of negative projections. If you want sexy moves and bad free agent signings then go root for the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, or Angels. The Orioles are bad for your mental health if you assume a losing season because we didn't give David Price 200 million dollars.

The lack of bad free agent signings isn't the problem.

It's the farm.

[oriole]

The lack of bad free agent signings isn't the problem.

It's the farm.

I still don't see that as sufficient reason to call off all hope. The Orioles have made a reputation as a good place for opportunity, good clubhouse, good manager, good core of players, good fan base. The farm is lacking in talent, sure but it's not barren by any means and a little bit of good fortune regarding a healthy Harvey or Bundy really makes for a prettier picture.

[Can_of_corn]

I still don't see that as sufficient reason to call off all hope. The Orioles have made a reputation as a good place for opportunity, good clubhouse, good manager, good core of players, good fan base. The farm is lacking in talent, sure but it's not barren by any means and a little bit of good fortune regarding a healthy Harvey or Bundy really makes for a prettier picture.

Last year they were an 81 win team. Their record pretty much matched their performance. The main goal this offseason appears to be keeping the core of that group together so they can get older and less effective together.

While the team could certainly over-perform and contend, I don't see the talent level of this team being higher then the one that one 81 games last year.

[DoubleStufOriole]

I really hope that Bundy, Gausman and Harvey all develop as valuable pieces of the rotation for years to come, but this organization hasn't drafted and developed a top-level starting pitcher since the days of Mussina and McDonald.

I guess you could count Erik Bedard, but the list of failures includes names like Riley, Douglass, Towers, DuBose, Maine, Penn, Hobgood, Olson, Berken, Bergesen, Loewen, Hobgood and Arrieta, along with Matusz and Britton as starters (Plus guys like Liz and Cabrera who were developed by the O's but not traditionally drafted).

[Aristotelian]

I still don't see that as sufficient reason to call off all hope. The Orioles have made a reputation as a good place for opportunity, good clubhouse, good manager, good core of players, good fan base. The farm is lacking in talent, sure but it's not barren by any means and a little bit of good fortune regarding a healthy Harvey or Bundy really makes for a prettier picture.

I am not saying tank or firesale, just start thinking long term, two or three years out. More like St Louis and Pittsburgh. The goal would be to stay competitive so we don't have to become Philly or pre-2015 Houston. Trading pitching for Cargo or giving up comp picks for 2nd tier guys (I'm looking at you Gallardo). Grow the core and supplement with free agents that are undervalued or fit our needs.

[Frobby]

Last year they were an 81 win team. Their record pretty much matched their performance. The main goal this offseason appears to be keeping the core of that group together so they can get older and less effective together.

While the team could certainly over-perform and contend, I don't see the talent level of this team being higher then the one that one 81 games last year.

The performance of the three pitchers who are the subject of this thread will have a lot to do with how the team does in 2016. We will need strong bounce-backs from Tillman and Gonzalez, and we will need Jimenez to hold to his 2015 form if not improve upon it.

I think how you view this team depends a lot on whether you think the "real" Tillman and Gonzalez are (1) the 2014 version, (2) the 2015 version, or (3) somewhere roughly midway between. We are almost certainly not a contender if Tillman and Gonzalez repeat their 2015 performances.

[weams]

The performance of the three pitchers who are the subject of this thread will have a lot to do with how the team does in 2016. We will need strong bounce-backs from Tillman and Gonzalez, and we will need Jimenez to hold to his 2015 form if not improve upon it.

I think how you view this team depends a lot on whether you think the "real" Tillman and Gonzalez are (1) the 2014 version, (2) the 2015 version, or (3) somewhere roughly midway between. We are almost certainly not a contender if Tillman and Gonzalez repeat their 2015 performances.

I agree. Especially since we bet on Gonzalez.

[weams]

Last year they were an 81 win team. Their record pretty much matched their performance.

A few less wins. Not enough to have made the payoffs. Bud Norris cost that.

[pastorfan]

Projecting to 2018 is difficult. But on the broad scale the O's have to think of Gausman, Bundy and Harvey. Tillman will only be 30. Extend him.

The 5th starter could be anyone. Two years is a long way off.

Yeah, I'd wait to see what 2018 brings. Last night on MLB Network they talked bout Braves thinking bout getting a hitter like Cespedes knowing that the FA market is weak next year. So again I'D LOVE TO SIGN TWO HITTERS, and we could always trade one for pitching in the next two years.

[DrungoHazewood]

Don't kid your self the window has closed and has been nailed shut

We are in a re-build but doing a really crappy job so far

But you're the boy who cried wolf. You said exactly the same things in 2012, 2013, 2014, and last year. Why should we believe you this time?

[DoubleStufOriole]

So again I'D LOVE TO SIGN TWO HITTERS, and we could always trade one for pitching in the next two years

This.

If we could somehow manage to sign both Cespedes/Upton AND Davis, we could potentially keep up the recent tradition of making the playoffs in even numbered years.

[abbott]

The performance of the three pitchers who are the subject of this thread will have a lot to do with how the team does in 2016. We will need strong bounce-backs from Tillman and Gonzalez, and we will need Jimenez to hold to his 2015 form if not improve upon it.

I think how you view this team depends a lot on whether you think the "real" Tillman and Gonzalez are (1) the 2014 version, (2) the 2015 version, or (3) somewhere roughly midway between. We are almost certainly not a contender if Tillman and Gonzalez repeat their 2015 performances.

Tillman and Gonzalez MUST improve from last year. They must make up for Chen who will be replaced by a committee not by a comparable pitcher. Jimenez must be no worse than his best year as an Oriole.

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