PED Suspensions Coming

[sportsfan8703]

28 minutes ago, weams said:

 

No surprise. PED testing started and the Yankees stopped winning WS. A team full of mid 30s FA signings isn’t a good idea anymore. 

At least Cano cares enough to keep cheating. Some players cheat, get the big bucks, and stop. 

[weams]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

No surprise. PED testing started and the Yankees stopped winning WS. A team full of mid 30s FA signings isn’t a good idea anymore. 

At least Cano cares enough to keep cheating. Some players cheat, get the big bucks, and stop. 

He says it was high blood pressure. Not a BP medication though.

[MurphDogg]

Any chance we can change the title of this thread to the correct number of games (80)?

[weams]

8 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Any chance we can change the title of this thread to the correct number of games (80)?

Laurel.

[MurphDogg]

1 minute ago, weams said:

Laurel.

Yanny.

[weams]

13 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Any chance we can change the title of this thread to the correct number of games (80)?

You got it Dogg. 

[OFFNY]

19 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

 

Any chance that we can change the title of this thread to the correct number of games (80)?

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, weams said:

 

You got it, Dogg. 

 

o

 

Hey, the mods even corrected the other erroneous portion of the title (CD Next?)

Good job, Weams.

 

o

[OFFNY]

1 minute ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

Hey, the mods even corrected the other erroneous portion of the title (CD Next?)

Good job, Weams.

 

o

o

 

The only thing that remains in need is the transfer of the thread to the MLB section of the board.

 

o

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

The only thing that remains in need is the transfer of the thread to the MLB section of the board.

 

o

You know as well as I do that the O's play the Mariners within the next 80 games so Cano's suspension relates to the Orioles. 

[OFFNY]

10 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

Hey, the mods even corrected the other erroneous portion of the title (CD Next?)

Good job, Weams.

o

 

 

8 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

The only thing that remains in need is the transfer of the thread to the MLB section of the board.

o

 

 

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

You know as well as I do that the O's play the Mariners within the next 80 games, so Cano's suspension relates to the Orioles. ) 

 

o

 

I know. I was just being a dick.

 

o

[Rich Mac]

10 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

So, based on the Sheep’s Testicle Extract story Ruth was a PED abuser? Seems logical.

Yes, very logical in my opinion. I already said ... 

Quote

 They may not be PEDs like we know them today, but they were injecting and taking pills that they hoped would enhance their performance beyond natural levels. 

Now you can choose to believe that it was the only time that he tried to improve his performance through absorption of a foreign substance, but I'm not going to be so naive. It was the only time that it was made public. Furthermore, I will repeat that I am not judging those guys, they were simply doing whatever it took to improve their careers. I'm just not going to walk through Cooperstown and pretend that the legends of the game didn't engage in such activities.

[Il BuonO]

10 hours ago, Rich Mac said:

Now you can choose to believe that it was the only time that he tried to improve his performance through absorption of a foreign substance, but I'm not going to be so naive. It was the only time that it was made public. Furthermore, I will repeat that I am not judging those guys, they were simply doing whatever it took to improve their careers. I'm just not going to walk through Cooperstown and pretend that the legends of the game didn't engage in such activities.

I guess you missed my post after the one you quoted here. Some supposition in what I agreed with in @Sessh‘s post, but still interesting.

Is it naïveté on my part or hubris on your part that determines Ruth’s guilt (frame it as you will)? This strikes me as opinion more than fact which you’re entitled to have. However, I’ve researched it as well. Ruth may have cheated (corked bat) but PEDs weren’t even invented yet. Amphetamines? Maybe, but it’s far more likely he abused alcohol (not performance enhancing) in copious amounts. 

This is from an earlier article which i believe is still relevant.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2013/12/30/5255996/mlb-baseball-drugs-peds-steroids-amphetamines-greenies-hall-fame

I don’t idolize players past or present. My run-ins with a former great, pathological in his addiction, who I idolized as a kid proved that to me once and for all. Ruth, Mantle (don’t think he did and probably shortened his career by abusing alcohol) Mays or Aaron all may have cheated in one degree or another, but (and it’s certainly a mitigating factor) the change in body mass and improved stamina one can achieve with anabolic steroids iwithout question does improve performance. Do amphetamines change body mass in any way? Not to my knowledge, but I may be naive. Are there positive effects? Sure. I drink more coffee when I’m tired or slam down some Dr Peppers. I’m instantly energized, but sodas and coffee is hardly an elixir. Greenies may have given those who used them a temporary boost, but they weren’t slamming 60-70 HRs over several years because of them.

Now, is there any difference between cheaters? Absolutely not. Gaylord Perry cheated. In the Hall. McGwire, Bonds, Clemens all cheated and the walls are gradually coming down. More than ever people and especially writers seem to be saying, “Ah, this has always gone on. Why should we keep them out now?” Well, Roy Oswalt didn’t cheat. And I thought he made a compelling argument. 

A day after Berkman told the Chronicle that he’d love it if all the dirty players are exposed Oswalt admitted that he was so proud of his teammates’ candor that he sent him a text message thanking him for speaking out for all the clean players.

“I feel the same way,” Oswalt said via phone from Mississippi a day after Rodriguez admitted taking steroids. “I feel that going out there natural against these guys that are taking the drugs is not fair to me. They’re already All-Star players and they’re taking drugs. That’s not fair for me. They’re cheating.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chron.com/sports/astros/amp/Astros-Oswalt-backs-Berkman-calls-out-steroids-1748090.php

I guess the argument can be made that if the integrity clause is violated who determines the severity of the punishment. Or, how is it determined? That’s why the HOF is there. Maybe baseball shouldn’t moralize at all about anything. But then treat it like wrestling where you know it’s a con instead of a game with rules and yes, integrity. 

Maybe they’re all painted with a broad brush, I don’t know. I do know that if I had played I’d be pretty ticked off if I played it clean while other guys cheated. 

[Sessh]

10 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

Ruth may have cheated (corked bat) but PEDs weren’t even invented yet.

....

Ruth, Mantle (don’t think he did and probably shortened his career by abusing alcohol) Mays or Aaron all may have cheated in one degree or another, but (and it’s certainly a mitigating factor) the change in body mass and improved stamina one can achieve with anabolic steroids without question does improve performance. Do amphetamines change body mass in any way? Not to my knowledge, but I may be naive. Are there positive effects? Sure. I drink more coffee when I’m tired or slam down some Dr Peppers. I’m instantly energized, but sodas and coffee is hardly an elixir. Greenies may have given those who used them a temporary boost, but they weren’t slamming 60-70 HRs over several years because of them.

Now, is there any difference between cheaters? Absolutely not. Gaylord Perry cheated. In the Hall. McGwire, Bonds, Clemens all cheated and the walls are gradually coming down. More than ever people and especially writers seem to be saying, “Ah, this has always gone on. Why should we keep them out now?”  Maybe baseball shouldn’t moralize at all about anything. But then treat it like wrestling where you know it’s a con instead of a game with rules and yes, integrity. 

...

Maybe they’re all painted with a broad brush, I don’t know. I do know that if I had played I’d be pretty ticked off if I played it clean while other guys cheated. 

Mythbusters did a show about corked bats and determined that balls hit with corked bats did not travel as far or as fast as balls struck with normal bats. Corked bats don't help at all except possibly in a psychological way. It doesn't make the ball go further, though. Therefore, not cheating.

Second, Mantle got a bad infection in 1953 from an amphetamines injection, so he most certainly used them. We don't really know when steroids became commonplace in baseball. Only that they were rampant in the 60's. Were they in the 50's? We may never know the answer to that, but there likely was increased use throughout the 50's. Mantle certainly was into amphetamine injections, though. Mays admitted to using "something" and Aaron admitted using them in his book.

Amphetamines will improve hand/eye coordination, reaction time, concentration levels and energy levels. Steroids make the ball go further when you make contact, but don't help you to hit a baseball like amphetamines do. I would argue the former is more of a performance enhancer than the latter. They don't cause bulk, but they don't need to either. Second, the quality and effectiveness of the drugs increased substantially in the 80's and especially the 90's. The drugs got a lot better and so did the results.

I don't even consider it cheating TBH since the whole league was doing something. For the most part, everyone was on an even playing field. I imagine I would try out some of the PED's myself. If I chose to not use, well that's my choice. I wouldn't expect the whole league to change for me. If I don't want to use, then it'll be harder for me. That's fine. I don't really think it's special, though. It's personal preference to use or not to use. The whole "PEDs in sports" thing is hardly a new development. By not using, you know what you're up against. If Griffey really didn't use anything, there's your shining example of succeeding without help. Of course, not failing a test doesn't really absolve anyone of guilt and I would bet Griffey did use early on. He's my favorite player ever either way. Superhuman feats usually require some help since we're not superhuman. Superhuman feats are part of the allure of sports IMO. It's incredible what athletes can do in any sport.

I have to wonder whether or not sports without PEDs would have become as popular as they are now. Professional athletes display superhuman abilities and I would bet most of them are on something to help them achieve it. I really have no problem with it. As far as people denying ever using and playing clean, I don't even necessarily believe them anymore. How many guys have claimed with absolute sincerity and indignation that they never took steroids only to find out they were complete liars. What are they supposed to say? Palmeiro went over the top denying his steroid use while knowing the WHOLE TIME he had failed a test already and that this truth would certainly come out soon? Besides, if all the "cheaters" were exposed, MLB would need to start bringing fans in to play games as replacement players because the real players would all be suspended.

Again, this isn't a winnable fight. It's already lost. You can't go back now. I think the only way to really get a handle on this is compromise instead of just banning everything. Look at the PED's individually and determine which are too dangerous to take at any dose and keep them illegal while making others legal to use, but ONLY under the supervision of team doctors who will monitor for side effects and control dosage. Any player found taking PED's outside of that restriction are suspended for a year without pay, no appeal. HGH should be completely legal as well and a mandatory part of any injury recovery program, but only under the supervision of a team doctor. Using it outside of that restriction is a one year suspension without pay, no appeal.

This has to be a give and take thing. You can't just take, take, take (prohibition) and expect everyone to be cool with that.

[Sessh]

8 minutes ago, Sessh said:

Second, Mantle got a bad infection in 1953 from an amphetamines injection, so he most certainly used them.

I double checked this and it was actually 1961. The injection was amphetamines and steroids apparently.

[Rene88]

80 games per Roch