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Taking a Flyer on Jason Botts?


StunninSteve

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This type of comment/criticism is too easy to make.

People have pounded the table for names like Phelps, Restovich and many others who have proven inadequate as major league hitters. Candidates like these are difficult to distinguish who is worth giving 300+ major league at-bats and who isn't.

While the investment $ is small, the wasted at-bats might not be unless it's a last place team. Still, no GM looks good giving ABs to guys like Restovich.

People only wanted Restovich to get time versus lefties...If you are going to talk about this stuff, at least present the facts instead of picking and choosing what you want.

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He put up good #'s in the minors his whole career. He put up a high BA as a power hitter which shows that he can't have that many holes. We don't lose anything if we give him a chance. If he becomes average we have him for cheap for many years. I think it is lazy by the O's FO if we don't claim him.

Uhh, he struck out nearly 30% of the time in over 1300 abs in AAA the last three years. He's got holes in his swing- which major league pitchers will exploit more fully.

BTW, Gibbons never hit under .300 in the minors. Guess he didn't have any holes in his swing either.

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Uhh, he struck out nearly 30% of the time in over 1300 abs in AAA the last three years. He's got holes in his swing- which major league pitchers will exploit more fully.

BTW, Gibbons never hit under .300 in the minors. Guess he didn't have any holes in his swing either.

Nope he had HGH.

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Uhh, he struck out nearly 30% of the time in over 1300 abs in AAA the last three years. He's got holes in his swing- which major league pitchers will exploit more fully.

BTW, Gibbons never hit under .300 in the minors. Guess he didn't have any holes in his swing either.

Who cares?

He also hit 286, 309 and 320 in the last 3 years in AAA.

He walked a lot and had very high OBP..His career MiL OBP is 399 and his career OPS is over 880.

You don't put up those numbers without having some clue as to what you are doing.

Oh and btw, in 2005, his ML equiv OPS was 805 and in 2006, it was 840...So, even though he was in the PCL, his numbers were still pretty good(not sure what his MLE was in 2007 but I would think it would somewhere around that number).

He has also hit lefties very well.

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I forgot...Do DH's play the field?
On a team constructed for optimal long-term success, which I assume is a reasonable goal during a massive rebuilding project, they certainly SHOULD have the ability to play the field -- to give the team flexibility to plug someone else in at DH when you want to give him a partial day of rest, or if a guy has a minor injury that affects his fielding more than his hitting, and can therefore be slotted in at DH for a few days. Admittedly, some guys are such phenomenal hitters that you're willing to sacrifice the benefits of such flexibility. Is that the case for Jason Botts?
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It amazes me that people complain about players like this.

Many of you act as if we think these are players we should build around or that they are guys that we want to play everyday.

That just isn't the case...We are talking about using guys like this instead of spending 3+ million on role players like Millar and Payton. And when these guys get expensive, we want them gone too.

There is just no reason to waste money on these older players when you can get younger guys to give you similar production for a fraction of the cost.

These guys(guys like Botts, Terrero, Knott) are limited players...We all know that...Yet, the guys they would be playing for are limited players as well...Its just that vet limited players have names you have heard of and they haven't toiled around in the minors for years because some team gave them a chance to show their limited abilities.

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On a team constructed for optimal long-term success, which I assume is a reasonable goal during a massive rebuilding project, they certainly SHOULD have the ability to play the field -- to give the team flexibility to plug someone else in at DH when you want to give him a partial day of rest, or if a guy has a minor injury that affects his fielding more than his hitting, and can therefore be slotted in at DH for a few days. Admittedly, some guys are such phenomenal hitters that you're willing to sacrifice the benefits of such flexibility. Is that the case for Jason Botts?

You mean like Cle and Boston??

And right now, this team isn't built for much of anything..It is getting that way...No reason not to give guys like this a chance.

I would much rather give an all hit, no field guy a shot before someone like Luis Hernandez.

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Who cares?

Strikeout rate, whether you want to believe it or not, means something.

He also hit 286, 309 and 320 in the last 3 years in AAA.

He was also in his mid 20s playing in a great hitting enviroment.

He walked a lot and had very high OBP..His career MiL OBP is 399 and his career OPS is over 880.

See above.

You don't put up those numbers without having some clue as to what you are doing.

Oh he has a clue- just not much more. I'm usally pretty leery of the term AAAA but I think Botts is the kind of player it was developed for. Mainly, his #s look a lot better until you take into consideration things like age and enviroment. Also, like I said, better pitchers can exploit those holes he posseses and that K rate will climb to about 40%. He won't be hitting 280 then.

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You mean like Cle and Boston??

And right now, this team isn't built for much of anything..It is getting that way...No reason not to give guys like this a chance.

I would much rather give an all hit, no field guy a shot before someone like Luis Hernandez.

That's your preogative.

But it doesn't make it right by any stretch of the imagination.

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Strikeout rate, whether you want to believe it or not, means something.

Sure it does...But if it is accompanied by a high average, good BB rate and high OPS, it means very little.

He was also in his mid 20s playing in a great hitting enviroment.

When he was younger, he still had very solid OPS's.

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It amazes me that people complain about players like this.

Many of you act as if we think these are players we should build around or that they are guys that we want to play everyday.

That just isn't the case...We are talking about using guys like this instead of spending 3+ million on role players like Millar and Payton. And when these guys get expensive, we want them gone too.

There is just no reason to waste money on these older players when you can get younger guys to give you similar production for a fraction of the cost.

These guys(guys like Botts, Terrero, Knott) are limited players...We all know that...Yet, the guys they would be playing for are limited players as well...Its just that vet limited players have names you have heard of and they haven't toiled around in the minors for years because some team gave them a chance to show their limited abilities.

The problem is we still have guys like Millar and Huff and Mora on this team. They aren't going to be cut or benched- rightfully so. So at this point, getting ourselves worked up into an angst over a guy like Jason Botts is unneccessary.

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That's your preogative.

But it doesn't make it right by any stretch of the imagination.

Well, it pretty much is right....Offense is more important than defense because it can be measured.

And again, this gets back to the same argument...You are ok with a guy who is one dimensional in one aspect(in this case, defense) but not in the case of Botts(his dimension is offense).

So, why is it ok for one and not the other, especially when offense is more important?

Is it just because the Orioles like defense and therefore you are allowing them to think for you?

If DT said, i am getting rid of Luis Hernandez because i want Botts on this team because of his offense, would you then agree with the move?

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The problem is we still have guys like Millar and Huff and Mora on this team. They aren't going to be cut or benched- rightfully so. So at this point, getting ourselves worked up into an angst over a guy like Jason Botts is unneccessary.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

This is always the dumbest part of the hangout...Comments like this...As if people are really that worked up about it...Stop pretending you have a clue as to what people are saying.

This is a discussion about the merits of Botts being here vs other players. Leave it at that and stop throwing these ridiculous, bs generalizations out there.

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On a team constructed for optimal long-term success, which I assume is a reasonable goal during a massive rebuilding project, they certainly SHOULD have the ability to play the field -- to give the team flexibility to plug someone else in at DH when you want to give him a partial day of rest, or if a guy has a minor injury that affects his fielding more than his hitting, and can therefore be slotted in at DH for a few days. Admittedly, some guys are such phenomenal hitters that you're willing to sacrifice the benefits of such flexibility. Is that the case for Jason Botts?
You mean like Cle and Boston??

Botts equals Ortiz???

It amazes me that people complain about players like this.

Many of you act as if we think these are players we should build around or that they are guys that we want to play everyday.

That just isn't the case...We are talking about using guys like this instead of spending 3+ million on role players like Millar and Payton. And when these guys get expensive, we want them gone too.

There is just no reason to waste money on these older players when you can get younger guys to give you similar production for a fraction of the cost.

These guys(guys like Botts, Terrero, Knott) are limited players...We all know that...Yet, the guys they would be playing for are limited players as well...Its just that vet limited players have names you have heard of and they haven't toiled around in the minors for years because some team gave them a chance to show their limited abilities.

So if we pick up Botts, does that mean we somehow get back the $20 million we wasted on Huff? This is a straw-man argument.
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