Taking a Flyer on Jason Botts?

[Pickles]

Well, it pretty much is right....Offense is more important than defense because it can be measured.

That's just wrong. The importance of something isn't dependent upon our ability to measure it. We can't measure if God exists but I'd say that's a pretty pertinent piece of information in the equation of the universe.

And again, this gets back to the same argument...You are ok with a guy who is one dimensional in one aspect(in this case, defense) but not in the case of Botts(his dimension is offense).

When did I ever say that? You whine about people putting words in your mouth and that's exactly what you're doing to me. I like complete ballplayers, which Jason Bott surely is not.

So, why is it ok for one and not the other, especially when offense is more important?

Is it just because the Orioles like defense and therefore you are allowing them to think for you?

If DT said, i am getting rid of Luis Hernandez because i want Botts on this team because of his offense, would you then agree with the move?

We get it: You're smarter than the O's front office. Anybody who disagrees with you is a sheep. It's all clear now- thanks.

[Sports Guy]

Botts equals Ortiz???

Yes, that is exactly what i meant!

My point is that a DH can still be part of a winning team even if he doesn't play int he field.

So if we pick up Botts, does that mean we somehow get back the $20 million we wasted on Huff? This is a straw-man argument.

THat's what you got out of what I said? Wow!

No point in discussing this if you want to pick and choose things and put words into my mouth. Huff was never even mentioned.

[Sports Guy]

The importance of something isn't dependent upon our ability to measure it. We can't measure if God exists but I'd say that's a pretty pertinent piece of information in the equation of the universe.

Ok, then your argument is, defense is more important because "I said so"?

The bottom line is we KNOW what offense can do...What we do KNOW about defense puts it behind offense...So, we can just go on hope or we can go with what we know for sure...I will go with more concrete stuff...You can go on faith.

When did I ever say that? You whine about people putting words in your mouth and that's exactly what you're doing to me. I like complete ballplayers, which Jason Bott surely is not.

I am not saying you said that...Just making a general comment.

We get it: You're smarter than the O's front office. Anybody who disagrees with you is a sheep. It's all clear now- thanks.

Is it just impossible for you to actually have an intelligent conversation? I have yet to see you involved in one without throwing things like this out there.

[Pickles]

Yes, that is exactly what i meant!

My point is that a DH can still be part of a winning team even if he doesn't play int he field.

The question, which you're clearly missing, is this: Is Jason Botts that guy?

I don't think so and I've seen him in about 50 major league games. How many times have you watched him play?

No point in discussing this if you want to pick and choose things and put words into my mouth. Huff was never even mentioned.

Maybe you didn't mention Huff but he certainly is a part of the equation. You're picking up a guy to take his position what you're going to do with Huff is pretty important at that point.

[Sports Guy]

[The question, which you're clearly missing, is this: Is Jason Botts that guy?

I don't think so and I've seen him in about 50 major league games. How many times have you watched him play?

I haven't seen him play but you can't put up the numbers in the minors he did without knowing what you are doing.

You will have to excuse me for relying on 3000 MiL ab's over your thoughts of him in 50 games.

Maybe you didn't mention Huff but he certainly is a part of the equation. You're picking up a guy to take his position what you're going to do with Huff is pretty important at that point.

This really isn't that hard...Huff can play 4-5 times a week at third, DH and first.

I would be playing Botts against all lefties and the occassional righty.

[Sports Guy]

BTW, I would prefer us to pick up Dan Johnson over Botts.

[Pickles]

Ok, then your argument is, defense is more important because "I said so"?

The bottom line is we KNOW what offense can do...What we do KNOW about defense puts it behind offense...So, we can just go on hope or we can go with what we know for sure...I will go with more concrete stuff...You can go on faith.

No my position is that defense certainly does matter and just because you can't measure it accurately doesn't make that any less so. It isn't a matter of faith; and it isn't a matter of because "I said so".

I am not saying you said that...Just making a general comment.

You most certainly did imply that.

Is it just impossible for you to actually have an intelligent conversation? I have yet to see you involved in one without throwing things like this out there.

It's the truth. You belittle my intelligence 1) by implying that I agree with anything the Orioles do as if I don't have a mind of my own and 2) directly.

Class act.

[Sports Guy]

No my position is that defense certainly does matter and just because you can't measure it accurately doesn't make that any less so. It isn't a matter of faith; and it isn't a matter of because "I said so".

Of course defense matters...It doesn't matter for your DH and it doesn't matter more than offense for all the data we have.

It's the truth. You belittle my intelligence 1) by implying that I agree with anything the Orioles do as if I don't have a mind of my own and 2) directly.

Class act.

This has been a common theme on the Hangout for years...If the Orioles do it, they are pros and know what they are doing...if they don't do it, then it obviously isn't the way it should be done. Almost as if they don't do anything wrong.

[Leitch]

Jon Knott stood a decent chance of being Marcus Thames for us. Anybody expecting him to hit 46 homers would have been sorely disappointed, but a .240/.360/.450 ish line from him was within reach and would have been pretty damn tasty.

[Sports Guy]

When you give guys like Botts a chance, you can easily cut them if they suck...You lose nothing.

When you have sub 700 OPS guys like Payton out there, cutting them is much harder because of salary.

[mweb]

Offense is not more important than defense(excluding pitching) because it can be measured more accurately, it's more important because it simply represents a much larger percentage of what leads to wins and losses.

[amateurfan]

Offense is not more important than defense(excluding pitching) because it can be measured more accurately, it's more important because it simply represents a much larger percentage of what leads to wins and losses.

Honestly, how do you know this? I would love to read something about it. I've always looked at the other way. Offense can never guarantee a win, but pitching and defense can guarantee a tie.

[Sports Guy]

Offense is not more important than defense(excluding pitching) because it can be measured more accurately, it's more important because it simply represents a much larger percentage of what leads to wins and losses.

But isn't this the case because you can't fully measure what defense does?

For example....Let's say the Orioles botch a DP and because of that, the other team scores 3 runs before we get what would have already been the third out...There is no way of really measuring this because of so many factors.

Oh well, you are right though but I guess I have always looked at what you said in a different way.

[mweb]

Honestly, how do you know this? I would love to read something about it. I've always looked at the other way. Offense can never guarantee a win, but pitching and defense can guarantee a tie.

I said defense excluding pitching is not nearly as important as offense. We are just talking about the ability to field the ball here, not pitch it.

[amateurfan]

Ok, then your argument is, defense is more important because "I said so"?

The bottom line is we KNOW what offense can do...What we do KNOW about defense puts it behind offense...So, we can just go on hope or we can go with what we know for sure...I will go with more concrete stuff...You can go on faith.

I am not saying you said that...Just making a general comment.

Is it just impossible for you to actually have an intelligent conversation? I have yet to see you involved in one without throwing things like this out there.

SG, senses are a source of knowledge, too, and though there is no good statistical measurement for defense by position, and there are good measurements for offense, it doesn't follow that a player evaluator doesn't know a defender's worth - he does, just not in terms that you are comfortable with. Also, just because evaluators may know more about a player's offensive production or future likely production in stats, if the player can't play in the field, the manager isn't going to put him out there - which can be known by what the evaluators see. In baseball, assessing a player's defensive ability is more like scouting players in other sports where statistics have less meaning. Nevertheless, stats don't replace the eyes - they enhance memory and analytic skills (but only for those who are willing).