How Much Of Base Running is Natural Instinct vs. A Learned Skill?

[MagicBird]

I was thinking about this tonight watching Manny - again - with some not so great base running.

Mannyhas such talent but seems to make some bonehead decisions on the base paths. Obviously, its a learned skill, but Im thinking some natural instinct comes into play as well, and maybe more than I thought previously.

[panick]

Machado's problem is decision-making. Tonight's try to score was OK since the infielder was running away from the plate.

But getting thrown out at third on a ground-ball to the shortstop? That was stupid. Trying to steal third with Davis at bat? Stupid.

And what about not running hard from the batter's box on his double(should have been) to right tonight? Not hustling.

Machado is too nonchalant at times. I guess he knows he is the star on the team and can just go through the motions sometimes.

[sportsfan8703]

Machado's problem is that even though he's playing at MVP level, he's still just 23 darn years old.

Palmer has been hard on him the last two nights. Which Manny deserves. Palmer name dropped Cal and Frank as always running things out. Well Eddie didn't and we still love him and he was a HOF.

[BarclaySouthway]

Running hard out of the box requires neither instinct or instruction. Besides that he's done some dumb stuff although I'm assuming Dickerson sent him on the blooper tonight.

[sportsfan8703]

Running hard out of the box requires neither instinct or instruction. Besides that he's done some dumb stuff although I'm assuming Dickerson sent him on the blooper tonight.

Machado should've ran Martin over on that play and then they would've had to call him safe. Gotta think that Martin knew who was where on the bases and that he would block that plate on a tag up situation with Machado on third.

It's not a coincidence that Manny is in the middle of all these situations. Teams don't tend to target the Ryan Flaherty's of the team. Honestly I think Jones runs Martin over tonight. Martin wouldn't do that to Davis or Trumbo because they're huge.

[OFFNY]

Running hard out of the box requires neither instinct or instruction. Besides that he's done some dumb stuff although I'm assuming Dickerson sent him on the blooper tonight.

Machado should've ran Martin over on that play and then they would've had to call him safe. Gotta think that Martin knew who was where on the bases and that he would block that plate on a tag up situation with Machado on third.

It's not a coincidence that Manny is in the middle of all these situations. Teams don't tend to target the Ryan Flaherty's of the team. Honestly I think Jones runs Martin over tonight. Martin wouldn't do that to Davis or Trumbo because they're huge.

Machado should have been sitting in the Orioles dugout having already crossed home plate, long before that play.

As Jim Palmer pointed out, Chris Davis' line-drive out up the middle probably would have been a single that would have plated 2 runs had Machado been on 2nd base instead of 1st base, like he should have been. And on top of that, Trumbo's single right after that absolutely would have plated Machado, even if Davis' line drive had not.

The larger point is Machado being very undisciplined at running the bases in the first place, not other teams targeting him after the fact.

[Going Underground]

Buck said he was going to talk to Manny after the game.He is young,etc.I see him not running hard all the time.It is not just two plays.Two weeks ago on Sunday at home he never left the batters box on one play and got about three steps up the line on the other.He has also gotten huge since last year.Seems slower.They say he had a growth spurt.

[Fuzzball22]

Buck said he was going to talk to Manny after the game.He is young,etc.I see him not running hard all the time.It is not just two plays.Two weeks ago on Sunday at home he never left the batters box on one play and got about three steps up the line on the other.He has also gotten huge since last year.Seems slower.They say he had a growth spurt.

If he wants to be a leader, he needs to can the "I'm a star" act. Dont notice it as much at short but when he is playing third when he fields the ball he takes his time and reads the label and guns the throw to first. How about just catching the ball and throwing it to first?. I didnt watch the game last night but i was following on my phone. It said that Machado singled to deep right. I knew what happened.

Listened to Manfra's call and he said that when he looked back at the infield he expected to see Manny heading to second instead of standing on first.

[Aristotelian]

Buck said he was going to talk to Manny after the game.He is young,etc.I see him not running hard all the time.It is not just two plays.Two weeks ago on Sunday at home he never left the batters box on one play and got about three steps up the line on the other.He has also gotten huge since last year.Seems slower.They say he had a growth spurt.

I wonder if AJ will have a talk with him too. Admiring the one off the wall is Hotdogging 101. Gotta cut that stuff out.

[tntoriole]

Buck said he was going to talk to Manny after the game.He is young,etc.I see him not running hard all the time.It is not just two plays.Two weeks ago on Sunday at home he never left the batters box on one play and got about three steps up the line on the other.He has also gotten huge since last year.Seems slower.They say he had a growth spurt.

Two knee surgeries may have impacted that speed as well. I was wondering the same thing. Even when you have fully recovered physically from patellar reconstructions, patients can often change their stride and gait when running as they are unconsciously trying to prevent a recurrence of the sudden pain that the patellar dislocation brought about. I too think Manny is slower than before his knee surgeries. It may also be slightly affecting some of his lateral speed at short- much less obvious at third where speed is not needed at all.

[sportsfan8703]

Two knee surgeries may have impacted that speed as well. I was wondering the same thing. Even when you have fully recovered physically from patellar reconstructions, patients can often change their stride and gait when running as they are unconsciously trying to prevent a recurrence of the sudden pain that the patellar dislocation brought about. I too think Manny is slower than before his knee surgeries. It may also be slightly affecting some of his lateral speed at short- much less obvious at third where speed is not needed at all.

Another great point. Knee surgeries. Young. Some O's fans have a complex about Manny. He's a hot dog if he makes errors in the field. Give it up.

The guy is 23. He's had two knee surgeries. He's the best player in baseball at two positions. He has the most unselfish hitting approach on the team. On a team where nobody else wants to go the other way. Not to mention that he's the targets of other teams' shenanigans, and has been since about 2014.

[eddie83]

Early in Buck's tenure he sat Adam Jones a game for not hustling. Jones had some issues early in his career as well.

Let's be honest Manny isn't the first slugger who doesn't run hard down the line but the last 2 games are not acceptable.

[weams]

Ed Encina writes.

“It’s something you just can’t do,” Showalter said. “It’ll catch up with you and it has at times. I do understand. There’s some things that happen that you hate to see him repeat. That’s the problem I have with it, and believe me, it’s been addressed. But I don’t want to see it happen with anybody, but I see the same thing people see. A lot of people don’t see what goes on down the runway behind closed doors. But guys who play the game every day and play it hard, they build up certain things, but he’s better than that.”

...

“He knows,” Showalter said. “You know what’s the tough part of it? And it’s no excuse. The guy’s played 200-something games in row. That usually buys a little cache with me. But Manny, he always beats me to the punch. But like I told him, it’s a CYA thing. The only way you keep that from happening is just run. … He’s usually kicking himself more than we are after it happens.”

[MagicBird]

Ed Encina writes.

Its nice that Manny recognizes things, so hopefully we'll see less of those things.

[tntoriole]

Ed Encina writes.

Actually this board is usually kicking him probably more for it than he is doing himself or Buck is doing it. lol. Good thing Manny can't hear us.