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Is it Duquette or Angelos to blame here?

markakis8

By markakis8
in Orioles Talk

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eddie83 Hangout Grand Counsel

eddie83

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I think the single biggest screwup in the last 5-7 years was he merry go round at pitching coach. We have an organization that harped on being able to draft and develop their own pitching and there was zero continuity at that important spot. The players basically say that Adair was awful but to me that falls on Buck, that was his guy. I don't blame DD for trading Arrieta I blame the organization for not developing him.

I also think the franchise deserves blame for not providing the current team with any position player at AAA that can help this club. No support at all from our system.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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I think the single biggest screwup in the last 5-7 years was he merry go round at pitching coach. We have an organization that harped on being able to draft and develop their own pitching and there was zero continuity at that important spot. The players basically say that Adair was awful but to me that falls on Buck, that was his guy. I don't blame DD for trading Arrieta I blame the organization for not developing him.

I also think the franchise deserves blame for not providing the current team with any position player at AAA that can help this club. No support at all from our system.

The pitching coach at the ML level is not responsible for developing pitchers.
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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

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I mean for freaking sakes, all we needed was a solid pitcher or two. We have the defense, we have the offense, and we have one of the best, if not THE, best bullpens in baseball. Trade the FARM for a pitcher. Why could we not get Sale? We have to cough up top minor leaguers, do it!

Matt Moore would've been cheaper. Andrew Cashner would have been cheaper. Drew Pomeranz would have been cheaper.

But no, let's get another freaking soft throwing pitcher to throw in the mix with Yovani and Ubaldo. Wade F***ing Miley.

This might be the best team we've had in decades our are starting pitching will cost us a playoff spot.

What cracks me up the most is the Orioles so hesitant to pay for quality arms and commit the years but the arms they do sign are atrocious. I cringed at the Ubaldo signing and I cringed at the Yovani signing. They better just keep drafting arms the first 5 rounds every year, they need it.

The O's don't have the chips in their minor leagues for top pitchers. To get a TOR

they would have to trade someone from the big club. You want Manny or Schoop traded for a pitcher? I think Angelos and DD have to share the blame but I put more on the owner. Just think what could have been if the owner had used the CD

money to improve the team. 150 million would have gone a long way to help the team. But no he wanted Davis resigned when Trumbo could have played 1st base.

Not to many GM's can work a man that meddles.

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eddie83 Hangout Grand Counsel

eddie83

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The pitching coach at the ML level is not responsible for developing pitchers.

To an extent I agree but listening to Britton who isn't exactly a mouthy guy talk about how he wishes Jake had the current pitching coaches tells me a lot. Arrieta was a head case here. We had Kranitz, Connor, Adair from 2010 to August 2013. By then Jake was gone. Constant change.

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OFFNY Hangout Grand Counsel

OFFNY

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That may be true, but I can't give him much credit for the last 15 years. Any competent GM should be successful. The trades he made this year were mainly FA's that only his team can continue to afford. Only point is he road the coat tails of Gene Michael and being a big market team.

About 7 or 8 years ago, I read a comment from somebody at the Baltimore Sun in regard to this.

They (the poster) asserted ...... "You give me more than $200 Million a year, ever year, and I'll put a competitive, winning team on the field every year. You give me the restrictions that Andy MacPhail has, and they'll hang me outside of O.P.A.C.Y."

There is no "risk/reward" factor for the Yankees. For most teams, if they splurge on a couple of highly expensive free agents that don't work out, that team will be pretty severely hamstrung financially as a result for several years. For the Yankees, it doesn't matter if they spend a lot of money on free agents that either bust and/or don't live up to the expectations that they had of them when they gave them all that money (Carl Pavano, A. J. Burnett, Randy Johnson, Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixiera, etc.) Or for that matter, Derek Jeter in the final few years of his contract. Jeter wasn't a free agent signing, but considering the ****load of money that they gave to him when he signed his contract extension back in 2010, he didn't coming close to playing like a $17 Million a year signing. They just keep on spending and spending, with little or no repercussions.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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The O's don't have the chips in their minor leagues for top pitchers. To get a TOR

they would have to trade someone from the big club. You want Manny or Schoop traded for a pitcher? I think Angelos and DD have to share the blame but I put more on the owner. Just think what could have been if the owner had used the CD

money to improve the team. 150 million would have gone a long way to help the team. But no he wanted Davis resigned when Trumbo could have played 1st base.

Not to many GM's can work a man that meddles.

:agree:
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thezeroes Major Leaguer Rising Star

thezeroes

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I think you have to ask yourself if the team's competitive position this offseason warranted the FO's decisions to re-sign Davis instead of letting him go for a top pick, re-sign Matusz (and later trade him away for a top pick) and sign Gallardo to forfeit a top pick with no thought of dealing Britton.

If we beat our projections and still miss the playoffs, I think it is a fair question of whether the cost was worth it, whether the FO made good decisions or not or accurately assessed our competitive position or not.

Your point is well taken. I would like to see the season "Play-Out" before totally dismissing the moves or non-moves that were made. The lost draft picks from Ubaldo and Gallardo won't have an impact on their teams for another year or two. Jury is still out on them.

For the record, I was all in favor of letting Chris Davis walk away when the acquired Trumbo and I was also for non-tendering Brian Matusz. Gallarado's signing was hinged with Dexter Fowler which did not pan out. Ubaldo's signing was hinged to Nelson Cruz which did work out that year. These tidbits always seem to get lost over time but are still the case in point.

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Stotle Hangout Grand Counsel

Stotle

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Your point is well taken. I would like to see the season "Play-Out" before totally dismissing the moves or non-moves that were made. The lost draft picks from Ubaldo and Gallardo won't have an impact on their teams for another year or two. Jury is still out on them.

For the record, I was all in favor of letting Chris Davis walk away when the acquired Trumbo and I was also for non-tendering Brian Matusz. Gallarado's signing was hinged with Dexter Fowler which did not pan out. Ubaldo's signing was hinged to Nelson Cruz which did work out that year. These tidbits always seem to get lost over time but are still the case in point.

There is actually an immediate impact in that the team does not have those assets to trade.

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