If This Team Collapse For The Second Straight Year, Doesn't Buck Have To Take A Hit?

[Going Underground]

Yes but when your an organization that is not going to spend the huge amounts of money on top pitching like we are you need to develop it from your organization which is why Gausman and Bundy are the keys to this teams long term future. We are going to sign mid level guys in free agency in pitching so you are not going to get great production. You do expect more then Ubaldo did though. Gallardo for the most part except for the injury that had him out early on has pitched about what we expected IMO. He was going to be a starter that will keep you in the game but will not go deep into games but you can expect 5 to 6 innings and 2 or 3 runs over that outing.

Or go the years for an elite pitcher.

"Let's face it, guys: Five-year contracts for starting pitchers have proven to be a pretty consistent graveyard. It just doesn't work. You're lucky to get three. And that's what some of these clubs do. They pay five or six to get three, and that's why the premium is on the June draft and the five or six picks that were going to get in the first round. And we've got to hit on some of those Friday night pitchers like Kevin Gausman."

https://thebaltimorewire.com/2016/01/20/baltimore-orioles-buck-showalter-on-the-pitching-strategy/

[clapdiddy]

60 starts combined from

Gallardo

Wilson

Wright

Jimenez

Combined ErA of 5.90, averaging 5.2 innings a start. Team is 30-30 in those starts.

A .500 record in starts with these stats seems to be way against the odds.

[slakattack]

You nailed it Rip. We couldn't ask for a better manager.

My goodness, he had this club in first place with a garbage rotation. He's manager of the year already.

I like Buck and I could easily name 5 flaws or foibles the man has, but none of them are really serious in my book. Could you imagine the Orioles led by someone other than

him right now? Not me. Who would replace him? Mike Scioscia should be available soon, or how about Brad Asumus? Would either of the Johns (Gibbons or Farrell) do better with this team? Doubt it...we probably would have been in the cellar by the end of May. This team is never going to get to the promised land with a C minus rotation...name one team that ever did. That said, Buck will never be MOY again without a pennant.

[El Gordo]

I like Buck and I could easily name 5 flaws or foibles the man has, but none of them are really serious in my book. Could you imagine the Orioles led by someone other than

him right now? Not me. Who would replace him? Mike Scioscia should be available soon, or how about Brad Asumus? Would either of the Johns (Gibbons or Farrell) do better with this team? Doubt it...we probably would have been in the cellar by the end of May. This team is never going to get to the promised land with a C minus rotation...name one team that ever did. That said, Buck will never be MOY again without a pennant.

I'm curious. what are the five. BTW I would be happy with Bochy, Madden, Tito, or Gardenhire, managing the O's

[Dark Helmet]

Buck has earned the right of a benefit of a doubt. Duquette...not so much. Duquette needs to go at the end of this season regardless of playoffs or not.

[slakattack]

I'm curious. what are the five. BTW I would be happy with Bochy, Madden, Tito, or Gardenhire, managing the O's

1. # WinRule

2. Does not rest all players enough

3. Too much loyalty to certain players

4. Never saw a bat he wouldn't bench late in a game for a marginal glove upgrade

5. Does not permit critical analysis from media, at least not willingly

Bochy, Madden and Tino are not going anywhere. Gardenhire - meh.

[wildcard]

The problem with Buck is that he has been very inconsistent as a hitter. And when he pitches as a starter he has not been effective.

[Can_of_corn]

I'm curious. what are the five. BTW I would be happy with Bochy, Madden, Tito, or Gardenhire, managing the O's

Save rule.

Win rule.

TTTP.

Hitter/Pitcher matchups.

Ignoring defense at CO positions.

Bonus

Lineup construction.

Forgot about not resting position starters, that's a big one. Schoop just got his first inning off the other day.

[eddie83]

Save rule.

Win rule.

TTTP.

Hitter/Pitcher matchups.

Ignoring defense at CO positions.

Bonus

Lineup construction.

Forgot about not resting position starters, that's a big one. Schoop just got his first inning off the other day.

Agree with some of this. I don't agree about corner OF defense. His options range from bad to worse. Buck said postgame yesterday that Davis is his best RF.

I do wish he rested his starters more. Also think he lacks enough OBP to construct his lineup better.

[Can_of_corn]

Agree with some of this. I don't agree about corner OF defense. His options range from bad to worse. Buck said postgame yesterday that Davis is his best RF.

I do wish he rested his starters more. Also think he lacks enough OBP to construct his lineup better.

He played Delmon Young in the outfield. There is never a reason for that.

As for lineup construction, JJ Hardy batted second 150 times in 2012 (282 OBP).

[eddie83]

Lesson learned: don't wait until last minute and rely on dominos to fall to have the "perfect scenario". It's been Duquette's MO since he got here.

And before you say he can't sign elite pitchers for the money they want...well...then...

...draft

...develop

...better?

Dan has made plenty of mistakes. However let's not act like the rest of the AL, especially the AL East are pitching factories. How much young pitching has Boston and NYY developed the last 20 years? The Jays have Sanchez but Gausman has a better ERA than Stroman. Estrada and Happ have been huge for the Jays, the same team that dealt Thor for Dickey. DD bringing in Chen and Miguel was a big part of the 2012-14 run. Hammel was a big part of 2012.

Let me be clear, I am not saying other teams are an excuse for the Orioles but it isn't easy to develop pouring outside of Tampa in this division. I am disappointed that our system doesn't have more position players at the upper levels to help contribute. It is pretty evident that blowing draft picks on aging second half of their career starters isn't the way to go.

[eddie83]

He played Delmon Young in the outfield. There is never a reason for that.

As for lineup construction, JJ Hardy batted second 150 times in 2012 (282 OBP).

Who else should have played? Lough?

Club hasn't exactly had high OBP players in his tenure. His options are limited.

[justice98]

A .500 record in starts with these stats seems to be way against the odds.

In theory, I would absolutely take a .500 record from that group.

[Can_of_corn]

Who else should have played? Lough?

Club hasn't exactly had high OBP players in his tenure. His options are limited.

Hardy had the lowest OBP of any of the nine regulars in 2012.

Anyone that owned an outfielders glove was a better choice than Delmon.

[justice98]

Buck is a great manager. It's fun to criticize him and think about all the 'what ifs' when we lose a close game. But, overall, he's a very good manager. He's helped bring winning back to Baltimore. I don't forget the dark years between 2000-2010.

This team just needs to hit. When we start hitting again, we're going to start winning again. We're about 1 Chris Davis hot streak from being at the top of the AL East again. The lineup has frustrated me since the AS break.

Criticizing Buck doesnt mean you dont think he is a great manager. Nobody's infallible, even the great ones. And it's fair to discuss their failings, as long as they're kept in perspective