Could we sign Wieters back for something like 3/35? Should we?

[atomic]

Realistically Wieters doesn't have much to work with here when it comes to SP. Most nights this staff can barely get through 5 innings. Is that his fault? If Gausman hasn't developed properly that's on Gausman, who for the most part has been a two-pitch pitcher. I have never paid much attention to what Dempsey says because he strikes me as a flake. If Dempsey can't see the many things Matt does in and outside of the clubhouse to help us win, he needs to adjust his bifocals.

Even with Gausman having only two pitches I see him shaking off Wieters a lot. Ultimately it is the pitcher who is responsible for what he throws.

[Orioles4Life21]

Up to .3 WAR now. I am beginging to have doubts about WAR. Wieters is having about the same season he did in 2010 in which he had 2.6 WAR. And Catchers seem to be doing pretty poorly overall in the American League this season hitting wise. They might need to adjust their calculations.

He was better defensively in 2010. Not to mention his .695 OPS is good for an 81 OPS+ in 2016 as opposed to a 90 in 2010.

[Frobby]

Wieters hasn't done a very good job handling this pitching staff. Just look at Gausman's career numbers throwing to Joseph compared to Wieters or even Miley's numbers throwing to Mike Zunino (a real defensive catcher) compared to Wieters. He's not very good at framing pitches or calling games. If you ever watch the Orioles post-game show after a loss, Rick Dempsey often calls out the poor pitch calling. Dempsey rarely calls out Wieters directly by name but it's pretty easy to infer that he's not overly impressed with Wieters defense like a lot of people on this board.

Last time I looked, Wieters had a better CERA than Joseph, and most of our starters were doing better with Wieters. And yes, Dempsey often criticizes certain pitch selections, and though he is due some deference after catching in the majors for 24 years, I often find that his opinions on many subjects (sometimes including this one) are inane.

That said, I do not think Wieters is as good defensively as he was 3-4 years ago.

[Orioles4Life21]

Wieters hasn't done a very good job handling this pitching staff. Just look at Gausman's career numbers throwing to Joseph compared to Wieters or even Miley's numbers throwing to Mike Zunino (a real defensive catcher) compared to Wieters. He's not very good at framing pitches or calling games. If you ever watch the Orioles post-game show after a loss, Rick Dempsey often calls out the poor pitch calling. Dempsey rarely calls out Wieters directly by name but it's pretty easy to infer that he's not overly impressed with Wieters defense like a lot of people on this board.

Oh you mean the Wade Miley that has started 5 games as an Oriole?

[Orioles4Life21]

WE DONT HAVE THE MONEY.

How hard is this to understand?

Not only do we not have the money, it would also be a terrible investment.

[TINSTAAPP]

Last time I looked, Wieters had a better CERA than Joseph, and most of our starters were doing better with Wieters. And yes, Dempsey often criticizes certain pitch selections, and though he is due some deference after catching in the majors for 24 years, I often find that his opinions on many subjects (sometimes including this one) are inane.

That said, I do not think Wieters is as good defensively as he was 3-4 years ago.

Don't you think catcher's ERA is a little misleading when you consider the fact that Caleb Joseph has been the personal catcher for Ubaldo most of the season while Wieters has been the catcher for 23 of the 27 starts made by Tillman? I would say that skews the numbers a little bit. And while Dempsey's thoughts can be a little silly at times, I hold his opinions about pitch-calling and being a good defensive catcher pretty highly. It's a topic that he's more than qualified to talk about.

[Aristotelian]

Last time I looked, Wieters had a better CERA than Joseph, and most of our starters were doing better with Wieters. And yes, Dempsey often criticizes certain pitch selections, and though he is due some deference after catching in the majors for 24 years, I often find that his opinions on many subjects (sometimes including this one) are inane.

That said, I do not think Wieters is as good defensively as he was 3-4 years ago.

Catching Ubaldo distorts Joseph's stats this year. My impression over 2014-15, a much larger sample size, is that our pitchers have done much better with Caleb. This article in August 2015 has Caleb's catcher ERA half a run better across the board, and that is an apples to apples comparison because each served as the primary catcher for a good chunk of the season.

http://www.baseballessential.com/news/2015/08/17/caleb-joseph-underrated-orioles-success/

According to this article, there was an even bigger difference in favor of Caleb in 2014 (he also appears to be much better at pitch-framing in that period):

http://www.camdenchat.com/2015/5/19/8624191/caleb-joseph-matt-wieters-orioles-position-battle

I am not saying that Caleb is necessarily the guy moving forward. Maybe he is better in a backup role. The point is that in the past, when you have more of a true apples to apples comparison, Wieters defense is definitely not better than Caleb Joseph, and that tells me his defense could be replaced pretty easily whether it is CJ or someone else.

[BergerKing]

I dont see anyone paying Matt more than 8-9 million a year at best. Matt's offense and McCann I think played a large part in that. I only see the Braves making an over pay and thats only if they dont trade for McCann.

[DrungoHazewood]

Shows that WAR isn't the only stat to look at Wieters has 51 RBis this year and his back up has zero. He is near the top of American leagues catchers in RBIs. Runs wins games. .

So you're saying that the O's will probably only find sub-replacement catchers, and/or catchers with historically poor RBI totals, for the next three years unless they resign Wieters?

[weams]

No. No. No.

No.No.No

Guys like Cruz, Trumbo and Alvarez are available for 8 million a year to DH. That's right. Always.

[crawjo]

I don't think there's any doubt at this point that Wieters is bad at framing pitches. He does some things well, but honestly I think a lot of the respect he gets is left over from his former days as a super prospect. If you look at the player he is now, he's basically replacement level, maybe a little bit better than that when he gets in a groove.

I would offer him 1 year, 5 million, and then when he says no plan on a duo of Sisco and Joseph to start the season.

[weams]

Even with Gausman having only two pitches I see him shaking off Wieters a lot. Ultimately it is the pitcher who is responsible for what he throws.

No. Not.

[weams]

I dont see anyone paying Matt more than 8-9 million a year at best. Matt's offense and McCann I think played a large part in that. I only see the Braves making an over pay and thats only if they dont trade for McCann.

McCann is available.

[crawjo]

I think this offseason should really be about finding low cost options for the bullpen and more candidates for the starting rotation. I might try to bring Alvarez back as a DH for the right price, and look for a good defensive outfielder. Otherwise I would just focus on trying to extend Machado.

[OriolesMagic83]

What about trading for Carlos Ruiz. He's on his last legs, but still has a .719 OPS w/ .362 SLG in limited action (I assume he's the backup in Philly).

He has an affordable option $4.5 mill next year. He has always drawn positive reviews for handling pitching staff. I would much rather pick up the rest of his contract than give Wieters a 3 or 4 year deal. Phillies will probably pick up part of his contract if the O's send a marginal prospect.