Rick Peterson....it is time.

[eddie83]

This whole topic isn't black and white. Who is the scouting director?, who is the minor league coordinator?, who is the major league and minor league pitching coaches?

My point is that players are drafted at different times. Some of the guys that didn't work out here didn't have Dave Wallace. Our top 3 starters are all products of the system. Yes, Tillman was a trade but he wasn't a finished product when he arrived. Gausman is showing major progress. We all know Bundy can pitch. Harvey has been hurt. Other than Harvey what quality arms have we drafted in recent years? We haven't been drafting as high since we started winning either.

[Bradysburns]

Tampa's pitching has been overrated in recent years now. The hype not backed by substance.

I go back and forth with Wallace. But guys like O'Day and Tillman have taken big steps with him. Givens too. Gausman not so much.

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I don't get the lack of love for Gausman. Young pitchers take time to round into form. The guy's our future ace - probably next year. Tillman will be given the Opening Day start, for decorum's sake and Buck's deference to veterans. But Gausman is the future, and it's becoming more obvious by the day.

To me, the issue is mainly one of lack of talent. I don't think anyone could fix the terrible that is the back of our rotation.

[Bradysburns]

This whole topic isn't black and white. Who is the scouting director?, who is the minor league coordinator?, who is the major league and minor league pitching coaches?

My point is that players are drafted at different times. Some of the guys that didn't work out here didn't have Dave Wallace. Our top 3 starters are all products of the system. Yes, Tillman was a trade but he wasn't a finished product when he arrived. Gausman is showing major progress. We all know Bundy can pitch. Harvey has been hurt. Other than Harvey what quality arms have we drafted in recent years? We haven't been drafting as high since we started winning either.

Good points. I gotta say: Our complete mishandling and then loss of Arrieta is possibly the most criminal mismanagement of a pitching resource in modern MLB history. It's just truly shameful in every way. Scott Feldman and Clevenger... Like... no prospects involved at all. Honestly, I love DD, but that move has forever shortened his rope with me.

[Going Underground]

So you think the "Turnaround" of Zach Britton was BS??? Interesting.

Dumb luck? i printed this before. Don't see Peterson involved.

No one throws a sinker like Britton. Actually, the ball isn't even supposed to sink. When he was in Class A, futzing around with different grips like all inquisitive pitchers do, one of his coaches, Calvin Maduro, tried to teach him a cutter. He told Britton to dig his middle finger into the seams, rest his index finger alongside it and throw. The ball was supposed to move in against right-handed hitters. It dove a foot away.

"I don't know what you're doing," Maduro said. "Just keep doing it."

Britton didn't know, either, and he did keep doing it anyway. And eight starts into his career, with his latest Thursday a nine-inning gem against Seattle, he might own the best lefty sinker in the American League.

The good stuff is usually there, of course, and when others see it they want the secret. Britton tries. Last year, reliever Pedro Beato(notes) inquired. He couldn't master the grip. Britton showed it to Matusz, who said it better resembled how he throws a curveball.

"I've tried to teach people the grip before," Britton said. "It doesn't work for anyone else."

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/dumb-luck-brought-britton-pitch-174200593--mlb.html

[atomic]

Good points. I gotta say: Our complete mishandling and then loss of Arrieta is possibly the most criminal mismanagement of a pitching resource in modern MLB history. It's just truly shameful in every way. Scott Feldman and Clevenger... Like... no prospects involved at all. Honestly, I love DD, but that move has forever shortened his rope with me.

We got Trumbo for Clevenger and Feldman pitched well for us in 2013. If other teams thought Arrieta and Strop had value we would have gotten more in trade. Problem was Arrieta has pitched terribly his entire Major league career up to that point. He was also 27. So it was not like he was a prospect at that point.

If you don't like the coaches who coached Arrieta don't blame DD. Buck hired those pitching coaches.

Jake was walking too many batters with the Orioles. He got that under control after he left. I would think it is more than a lack of a cutter that was causing him issues.

[Redskins Rick]

We got Trumbo for Clevenger and Feldman pitched well for us in 2013. If other teams thought Arrieta and Strop had value we would have gotten more in trade. Problem was Arrieta has pitched terribly his entire Major league career up to that point. He was also 27. So it was not like he was a prospect at that point.

If you don't like the coaches who coached Arrieta don't blame DD. Buck hired those pitching coaches.

Jake was walking too many batters with the Orioles. He got that under control after he left. I would think it is more than a lack of a cutter that was causing him issues.

I think it was too, probably something with where he stood on the rubber, and probably a mild hiccup with his mechanics, and even TTP.

Ubaldo reminds me of him some. Talented and really good stuff and times, cant get the ball over the plate for a strike if his life depended on it.

[Frobby]

There's really no excuse for how bad our staff is, how little improvement we've seen since day one, how a guy with Britton's stuff couldn't be a starter, how arrieta went elsewhere and won the cy young and how little we've been able to grow our farm and our own arms considered "grow the arms" was supposedly our strategy and it's been a total and complete failure.

Enough is enough.

I don't see how anyone can lay any blame for Britton or Arrieta at Peterson's feet. Arrieta was in our system for 4+ seasons before Peterson arrived, and made his major league debut two seasons before Peterson arrived. Britton was in our system for six years before Peterson arrived and debuted the season before Peterson got here.

I'm not saying I'm a big advocate for Peterson, but these were not the two guys to pick as examples if the issue is whether pitchers have been developed well under Peterson.

[Redskins Rick]

I don't see how anyone can lay any blame for Britton or Arrieta at Peterson's feet. Arrieta was in our system for 4+ seasons before Peterson arrived, and made his major league debut two seasons before Peterson arrived. Britton was in our system for six years before Peterson arrived and debuted the season before Peterson got here.

I'm not saying I'm a big advocate for Peterson, but these were not the two guys to pick as examples if the issue is whether pitchers have been developed well under Peterson.

I think thats just human nature. Some coaches work better with some players than others.