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Bedard's History Does Not Make Him Untouchable

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Dr. FLK Hangout Grand Counsel

Dr. FLK

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Just to be clear - you are aware that it's not 1974, right?

Back in the teens someone came up with the idea of using a second, and sometimes third, pitcher in a game even though the starter hadn't given up 14 runs. They've expanded that concept a little over the last 90-odd years.

But that still doesn't mean there is no value in a complete game, does it? It's nice to have a pitcher who can keep his pitch count down and get you through 9 on occasion. It doesn't seem like Bedard often gives 8. Obviously the number of CGs is much lower than years ago, but that doesn't mean it's not nice to give the bullpen some rest.

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sector7g Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

sector7g

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Is anyone confident Bedard signs an extension? I'm not. His general demeanour on and off the mound gives me the impression he's not satisfied (probably with good reason) with life here. If he isn't going to extend he must be traded since we're not likely to win in his remaining 2 years here.

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Dr. FLK Hangout Grand Counsel

Dr. FLK

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Is anyone confident Bedard signs an extension? I'm not. His general demeanour on and off the mound gives me the impression he's not satisfied (probably with good reason) with life here. If he isn't going to extend he must be traded since we're not likely to win in his remaining 2 years here.

If this team doesn't improve, I'm not confident that any of our top young talent signs an extension. Why would any legit player want to sign an extension with this dying franchise? Unless something changes, I wouldn't blame Bedard and others for walking when their deal is up.

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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Sure we can. But, if we want to enjoy a team that doesn't suck, we might have to move some key pieces. Bedard is already late 20s. Do you see the Os competing anytime before he's in the 31-32 range? If the Os could get some key pieces for him, I'd be all over trading him. But, as long as he's here, I'm going to enjoy the heck out of each start made by our strikeout machine.

If we get absolutely blown away with a trade offer, then yeah, I think you have to trade him.

But my comment was more geared towards the initial post. Who gives a crap if he doesn't have a complete game?

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Dr. FLK Hangout Grand Counsel

Dr. FLK

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If we get absolutely blown away with a trade offer, then yeah, I think you have to trade him.

But my comment was more geared towards the initial post. Who gives a crap if he doesn't have a complete game?

Yeah, I wouldn't give him away by any means. And, while I would like to see him be able to go deep into games - and complete one every now and again - it certainly doesn't make me want to deal him. It would be nice to see him dominate and save the bullpen, but even with 0 CGs he's one heckuva pitcher.

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Mad Mark All-Star

Mad Mark

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Even Ray Miller, in his last stint here as pitching coach, said something to the effect of "if the starters can get me 21 outs, I can figure out how to get the other six". Complete games are OK, but usually not necessary in today's game.

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geschinger Veteran All-Star

geschinger

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Guthrie has shown the ability to go deep in games and be very effective. He has great stuff. His performance has made him almost untouchable.

What has happen with him in the past is the past. Maybe its his connection with Mazzone. Maybe he has just matured. What ever the reason, noone can pitch much better then he has. There is almost no reason I would trade him.

Or maybe he's like a young Rodrigo Lopez putting together an outstanding run of starts that is an outlier compared to the rest of his career. I hope he's the real deal but I think it's safe to say that it is entirely too soon to put him in the category of the untouchables after 8 starts.

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weemnj AAA

weemnj

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Is anyone confident Bedard signs an extension? I'm not. His general demeanour on and off the mound gives me the impression he's not satisfied (probably with good reason) with life here. If he isn't going to extend he must be traded since we're not likely to win in his remaining 2 years here.

There are starting to be a number of internet rumblings that he is not content here ---possibly Toronto bound as his choice.

Let the bidding begin.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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But that still doesn't mean there is no value in a complete game, does it? It's nice to have a pitcher who can keep his pitch count down and get you through 9 on occasion. It doesn't seem like Bedard often gives 8. Obviously the number of CGs is much lower than years ago, but that doesn't mean it's not nice to give the bullpen some rest.

Ok, but did you see Mark Carver's list? Players who the Orioles would kill to have, and players whose names have been thrown around here as centerpieces of big rebuilding trades, and none of them complete more than about one start every year or two.

Complete games don't happen anymore because they're much harder now than 30, 50, 80 years ago. And because any decent pen will be more effective throwing the last inning or two than the reigning Cy Young winner after 120 pitches.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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Or maybe he's like a young Rodrigo Lopez putting together an outstanding run of starts that is an outlier compared to the rest of his career. I hope he's the real deal but I think it's safe to say that it is entirely too soon to put him in the category of the untouchables after 8 starts.

Right now you have to assume Guthrie is as untouchable as David Newhan was in July of '04.

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AgentOrange Veteran All-Star

AgentOrange

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I think the only way we trade him is if we are going toward some youth movement. I think some of our pitchers in the minors have to really step up to fill the void if we do trade him. I think he and Miggy can bring back 4 young players together. That is a solid foundation if we can get the right players. Either that or 2-3 solid young players. That would be the only situation that I would feel good about getting rid of Bedard.

I would not want to trade him for Tex or Dunn, however. It has to be a team that needs 1-2 more players that have one of their young studs blocked and they think they can get more out of Tejada or Bedard than they can out of the young player... Slim chances to be sure.

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Dr. FLK Hangout Grand Counsel

Dr. FLK

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Ok, but did you see Mark Carver's list? Players who the Orioles would kill to have, and players whose names have been thrown around here as centerpieces of big rebuilding trades, and none of them complete more than about one start every year or two.

Complete games don't happen anymore because they're much harder now than 30, 50, 80 years ago. And because any decent pen will be more effective throwing the last inning or two than the reigning Cy Young winner after 120 pitches.

I agree. I'm not saying I think Bedard stinks because he doesn't throw CGs. I'd like to see some, and I do think CGs have value. But, if he doesn't throw any, it certainly isn't a big deal.

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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I think the only way we trade him is if we are going toward some youth movement. I think some of our pitchers in the minors have to really step up to fill the void if we do trade him. I think he and Miggy can bring back 4 young players together. That is a solid foundation if we can get the right players. Either that or 2-3 solid young players. That would be the only situation that I would feel good about getting rid of Bedard.

I would not want to trade him for Tex or Dunn, however. It has to be a team that needs 1-2 more players that have one of their young studs blocked and they think they can get more out of Tejada or Bedard than they can out of the young player... Slim chances to be sure.

If we were to trade Bedard I'd want two arms (hoping one will eventually fill the void) and a bat.

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Hank Scorpio Hangout Grand Counsel

Hank Scorpio

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*Foams at the mouth* His minor league stats! His minor league stats!! You have to trade Guthrie because of his minor league stats! Never mind maturation and development! *eyes roll in the back of Milligan's head, seizures occur*

You might want to get that checked out, sh*tbagger.

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AgentOrange Veteran All-Star

AgentOrange

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If we were to trade Bedard I'd want two arms (hoping one will eventually fill the void) and a bat.

I don't think he is that valuable. Depending on the farm club, we could get 2 top 10 prospects if we are lucky for Bedard, IMO.

I would much rather see some position players coming back in the deals, they seem like more of a sure thing, even though they have a ton of question marks as well.

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