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Bedard's History Does Not Make Him Untouchable

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By section18
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TGO Hangout Grand Counsel

TGO

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Erik Bedard could walk on water and find Osama bin Laden and some people would still want to trade him for never pitching a complete game.

This guy has moved into the ranks of Peavy, Sabathia, and Haren. Guys on the rung right below Santana, Webb, Carpenter, etc. I guess greatness isn't good enough for some people?

Don't get me wrong, no one is untouchable to me, but you'd have to be absolutely blown out of the water to trade Bedard.

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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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Erik Bedard could walk on water and find Osama bin Laden and some people would still want to trade him for never pitching a complete game.

This guy has moved into the ranks of Peavy, Sabathia, and Haren. Guys on the rung right below Santana, Webb, Carpenter, etc. I guess greatness isn't good enough for some people?

My only disagreement with this post is not putting Peavy up on the top echelon. He's been there for a couple years now (aside from a rough year last season).
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AgentOrange Veteran All-Star

AgentOrange

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This has been one of the funniest threads ever on here.

BTW, you do NOT trade Bedard unless you get THREE top prospects...Not 2 but 3.

If you can't get him extended, you could wait until next year to trade him.

I don't see how it's funny. I mean when you look at it, how many teams actually have 3 top prospects?

And if they did, are they in a position where they need a guy like Bedard?

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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I don't see how it's funny. I mean when you look at it, how many teams actually have 3 top prospects?

And if they did, are they in a position where they need a guy like Bedard?

The stuff about trading Bedard(the prospect part of it) wasn't what i thought was funny.

Mets, Dodgers, DBacks, Angels, Red Sox, Atlanta and Detroit to answer your second question(just to name a few teams off of the top of my head).

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AgentOrange Veteran All-Star

AgentOrange

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The stuff about trading Bedard(the prospect part of it) wasn't what i thought was funny.

Mets, Dodgers, DBacks, Angels, Red Sox, Atlanta and Detroit to answer your second question(just to name a few teams off of the top of my head).

Oh ok, what did you think was funny then?

I agree that those teams may need that. We will have to see how it pans out.

What would you like to get? Position players back? Pitchers? What is more valueable in a trade?

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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Erik Bedard could walk on water and find Osama bin Laden and some people would still want to trade him for never pitching a complete game.

This guy has moved into the ranks of Peavy, Sabathia, and Haren. Guys on the rung right below Santana, Webb, Carpenter, etc. I guess greatness isn't good enough for some people?

Peavy -- 1.97 ERA (2nd in MLB)

Sabathia -- 3.09 ERA (18th in MLB)

Haren -- 1.58 ERA (1st in MLB)

I like Bedard, and expect him to move up as the year progresses (as he has been doing), but right now he is tied for 43rd in ERA in MLB. I don't think he can be ranked with these three right now. There are an awful lot of pitchers who have performed well this year.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Oh ok, what did you think was funny then?
People saying they have more faith in Guthrie than bedard...Just the normal whiny bs abotu Bedard..That type of thing.
I agree that those teams may need that. We will have to see how it pans out.

What would you like to get? Position players back? Pitchers? What is more valueable in a trade?

Best package possible(sorry for being vague)...Would prefer 2 position players and one pitcher.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Peavy -- 1.97 ERA (2nd in MLB)

Sabathia -- 3.09 ERA (18th in MLB)

Haren -- 1.58 ERA (1st in MLB)

I like Bedard, and expect him to move up as the year progresses (as he has been doing), but right now he is tied for 43rd in ERA in MLB. I don't think he can be ranked with these three right now. There are an awful lot of pitchers who have performed well this year.

But his DIPS is way up there, 7th or 8th in the AL i believe.

He has pitched much better than his record and ERA indicate.

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TGO Hangout Grand Counsel

TGO

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Oh ok, what did you think was funny then?

I agree that those teams may need that. We will have to see how it pans out.

What would you like to get? Position players back? Pitchers? What is more valueable in a trade?

I'm sure SG will answer shortly, but he's probably laughing at the same thing I'm laughing at, which is the reason people want to trade Bedard. Wanting to rebuild and get prospects is one thing, but wanting to trade him because he can't/won't throw a complete game is kind of silly.

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AgentOrange Veteran All-Star

AgentOrange

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People saying they have more faith in Guthrie than bedard...Just the normal whiny bs abotu Bedard..That type of thing.

Best package possible(sorry for being vague)...Would prefer 2 position players and one pitcher.

I hear ya about the first thing.

I would rather have stud position players, I think they convey better and we need some serious positional talent in the minors. It would set up well for us.

I mean I have already said this earlier, I don't want to trade Bedard unless we are committed to making a youth movement that includes trading Miggy...

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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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I hear ya about the first thing.

I would rather have stud position players, I think they convey better and we need some serious positional talent in the minors. It would set up well for us.

I mean I have already said this earlier, I don't want to trade Bedard unless we are committed to making a youth movement that includes trading Miggy...

If Bedard is traded we need to be trading everybody on the MLB roster except for Markakis and Loewen. Nobody over the age of 25 should be kept if we're dealing Bedard, including Roberts.

Trading Miggy and/or Ray could be done while "reloading" instead of "rebuilding". Trading Bedard and Roberts is a sign of a complete rebuild. I'm not neccesarily completely against that, but I don't think its entirely neccesary at this point.

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AgentOrange Veteran All-Star

AgentOrange

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If Bedard is traded we need to be trading everybody on the MLB roster except for Markakis and Loewen. Nobody over the age of 25 should be kept if we're dealing Bedard, including Roberts.

Trading Miggy and/or Ray could be done while "reloading" instead of "rebuilding". Trading Bedard and Roberts is a sign of a complete rebuild. I'm not neccesarily completely against that, but I don't think its entirely neccesary at this point.

You don't think we could get 4-5 prospects back for Bedard and Miggy?

Not everyone is able to be traded, and those are our two best pieces.

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geschinger Veteran All-Star

geschinger

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If Bedard is traded we need to be trading everybody on the MLB roster except for Markakis and Loewen. Nobody over the age of 25 should be kept if we're dealing Bedard, including Roberts.

Trading Miggy and/or Ray could be done while "reloading" instead of "rebuilding". Trading Bedard and Roberts is a sign of a complete rebuild. I'm not neccesarily completely against that, but I don't think its entirely neccesary at this point.

This approach might be a bit excessive. Everyone other than Loewen/Markakis should be seriously shopped to see what kind of return they might bring back but I don't think we're in a position where trading everyone on the roster over 25 is necessary.

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TGO Hangout Grand Counsel

TGO

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xFIP ERA Leaderboard 2007

Peavy – 2.93

Hamels – 3.12

Webb – 3.13

Bedard – 3.27

Yes, he more than belongs in that group – any day of the week.

Thanks for doing the legwork on that. :D

Mackus, you're right that Peavy belongs in that top group.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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xFIP ERA Leaderboard 2007

Peavy – 2.93

Hamels – 3.12

Webb – 3.13

Bedard – 3.27

Yes, he more than belongs in that group – any day of the week.

To me, stats like xFIP are a predicitive tool and nothing more. They don't measure the actual results a pitcher has had. The idea of pitching is to prevent runs, not hypothetical runs.

I said I expect Bedard to move up the ladder as the year progresses. Stats like DIPS and xFIP are part of the reason why I think that. But he still has to do it.

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