Face facts: Freddie Bynum is not the answer at SS

[Old#5fan]

Would LH have been able to get the winning hit if the runner wasn't on second or if the team ahdn't performed well before that?

None of that would have mattered had he not gotten the big hit to end it with a win. I am not saying that whatever transpired before wasn't important, but it didn't win the game, just kept his team in the game. LH won the darn game. Its as simple as that. Nobody else swung the bat for him. He gets the credit and he deserves it as does any hitter who gets a walk off game winning rbi.

[Crazysilver03]

Wrong again but you are getting closer to admitting it. Hernadez's hit was'nt the main point to winning the game. IT WON THE GAME! Once he got the hit the GAME WAS OVER - ORIOLES WIN! Same as any walkoff game winning hit. The batter gets all the credit for it because he was the only one swinging the bat. Now it he had hit the ball and the opposition made an error, they get the blame and he gets no credit or very little for what should have been an out. I know you have to see the difference. Either way, it has nothing to do with the team at that particular moment it was individual hitting heroics or an individual defensive blunder that caused the game. Team doesn't really enter into it at that moment.

Whatever. Hernandez won the game. Okay.

Hernandez lost the game when he got picked off 1st base. Or was that a team effort?

[Old#5fan]

Big difference between making a significant contribution and winning the game by yourself. I can go in the bottom of the ninth in a 0-0 game and hit a walkoff HR. Obviously I have made a large contribution to the win, however the pitching staff and defense played well enough to allow me to be in a position to get the game winning HR. Without their efforts I would not have had the opportunity

Nevertheless, the most important part of the entire game was your clutch walkoff homer. I guarantee you that you would be the player of the game and the hero in the headlines the next day. No doubt whatsover.

[Mackus]

Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it!

[Old#5fan]

Whatever. Hernandez won the game. Okay.

Hernandez lost the game when he got picked off 1st base. Or was that a team effort?

If he was the tying or winning run and he got picked off, it certainly could be argued that he cost them the game. I forget, but I thought they were down two runs at the time. Granted had the next hitter hit a homer which would have been a two run game tying shot without the pickoff, I would consider LH the goat who lost that game. However, in the context of this particular game I think he was just one of the bigger causes but not the main cause of the loss.

[Lucky Jim]

Why do we argue with cranks?

Please, read something informative instead: Link.

[DrungoHazewood]

Let's get back on topic, and talk about Freddy's clutch ability.

Here's how I rank Freddy in relative clutchiness:

1. Bob Bonner

2. Freddy Bynum

3. Tim Hulett

4. Rene Gonzalez

5. Rene's alter-ego R.C. Gonzalez

6. Luis Hernandez

7. Dave Skaggs

8. Stan Jefferson

Discuss.

[davearm]

During his final at bat in the 9th inning of the game where he came through with the game ending walk off hit, of course he at that moment, was the sole reason they won. He ended the game. He won it. Nobody else did it, he did. There wasn't anyone else in the batters box with him that I know of.

This is the closest you've come to making any sort of sense.

Hernandez' hit ENDED the game. It didn't WIN the game, it ENDED the game.

What WON the game was the collective efforts of every player that appeared in the lineup, and the individual contributions each made over the course of hundreds of pitches and dozens of balls in play.

Some guys made bigger impacts on the outcome, and some made smaller impacts, but nobody's impact was so large as to warrant being designated THE person that won the game. Baseball doesn't work that way. No team sport works that way.

[Mackus]

No team sport works that way.

I think the 2-man luge works that way sometimes.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think the 2-man luge works that way sometimes.

And space jai-alai. Everyone always forgets space jai-alai.

[Burg]

Whatever. Hernandez won the game. Okay.

Hernandez lost the game when he got picked off 1st base. Or was that a team effort?

I think it was a productive pick off.

[Roll Tide]

What I can't understand is the defense of a guy LH who shouldn't even be in the major leagues. He was around a .250 hitter in the minors with No Power, No Speed, and quite frankly tentative fielding. I am not saying he didn't have a nice game at 2B the other night filling in for Roberts. I am not saying he didn't field well last year. All I know is the lack of organizational depth is the only reason he even got a look. Really he's only worth 20 extra base hits in 400 AB's. With Bynum you'll get that at a min plus some sb's & better defense. Whats not to like about the move. Lastly any idea of moving Roberts & sliding him over as anymore than a patch is well not even worth discussing.

[LookitsPuck]

Who cares. Luis Hernandez is downright terrible.

Good for him, he had a walk-offer. I'll keep that in my back pocket, you know, when he hits about a .600 OPS for the year, or is somewhat average at SS.

No thank you to LH. Enjoy AAA, even though that is questionable.

[Frobby]

I am curious what posters have seen from Bynum at shortstop that makes them think he is below average defensively. I know he has not played SS consistently through the minors which makes people think that teams would have played him there if he was good at the position. I agree with that.

However my question is can you evaluate what he have seen. Here what I have seen:

Pros:

Charges ball well. Throws seem accurate. Good foot work around the bag. Seems to work well with Roberts. I have not been able to evaluate his range yet. I would say from what I have seen his arm is average. Quick reaction.

Con:

Laid back on one play on a high hopper and did not get the throw there in time. It was a bad decision not to charge, but we have seen him charge balls well so its not like he can't make that play, he just didn't.

Fell down on a play in the infield (on wet grass I believe) and didn't get the runner at first. He then tried to make the throw while on his butt and almost throw the ball away. Millar came off the bag and caught the throw.

That is about all I have to go on. What have you guys seen?

That's about all I've seen. I recall a play with 2 runners on where Bradford induced a hard grounder in the hole that Freddie was able to knock down but not field. Frankly, I thought he did well to knock it down. I've seen 1-2 other plays where a liner or a hard smash barely eluded a diving attempt, but they didn't seem to me to be plays that I necessarily would have expected a good SS to make.

Turning the DP, he has looked quite solid to me. I really don't have any complaints, though his weaknesses may be further exposed with more playing time.

Can we go back to WC's question, please? It's the only useful part of this thread so far as I can see.

[Old#5fan]

This is the closest you've come to making any sort of sense.

Hernandez' hit ENDED the game. It didn't WIN the game, it ENDED the game.

What WON the game was the collective efforts of every player that appeared in the lineup, and the individual contributions each made over the course of hundreds of pitches and dozens of balls in play.

Some guys made bigger impacts on the outcome, and some made smaller impacts, but nobody's impact was so large as to warrant being designated THE person that won the game. Baseball doesn't work that way. No team sport works that way.

I have to strongly disagree. For example, any basketball player who hits a last second shot that is the game winner, and who wins the game by that shot, won the game. Conversely, the game would not have ended with a win, without that particular shot. While it could be argued that every other basket was as important in such a close game, a point that I will concede, that final shot is what "won" that particular game. It is the single act that is finally or ultimately responsible for winning that particular game. It isn't called the "game winner" for nothing. Same with a walk off hit. The "team" may count that hit in its statistical totals but so does the individual player, who actually achieved the hit by his personal batting skill (or luck-however you view it). The rest of the team had nothing to do with his achieving that singular act of batting in the winning run or making the game ending shot. That was all on the shoulders of that particular individual player.