Is Penn still hurt...

[Frobby]

If you are right then those doctors are ridiculous. For example, I think most folks with an ounce of common sense would acknowledge the NFL is much more of a contact sport and far more dangerous as far as injury possibilities generallly than MLB. Yet Ben Roethlesberger had an appendectomy and I believe missed one game and about a week of practice and was right back out on the field starting a game and taking all kinds of hits. I recall seeing this and thought about Penn and was astonished at how long the dude took off to "recover" from such minor surgery. Big Ben didn' t need weeks to recover and a "rehab" like Penn. I thought that whole thing with Penn like virtually everything else surrounding this guy was nuts. :2yay-thumb:Penn would probably go on the DL for a paper cut and need three weeks of rehab!:rolleyestf:

I just think it is very dangerous to comment on issues like this when you don't know all the details. Not all cases of appendicitis are exactly alike. Not all appendectomies go exactly the same way. Not all people recover the exact same way from appendectomies. Not all players are as critical to their team's chances of success (causing the team to push them along as fast as possible even if there are some risks). Some teams, or some teams' doctors, may be more conservative than others. There are a host of factors here, and we really don't know what caused Penn to be out for a longer time then, say, Ben Rothlesberger or Roy Halladay.

I just want to stress that I'm not ruling out the possibility that Penn's recovery took longer than it should have because he didn't rehab properly, didn't have any tolerance for pain, or because he's just a slow healer. But, we really don't know any of that, so I don't think its fair to just toss it out there as if it is fact.

[Old#5fan]

I just think it is very dangerous to comment on issues like this when you don't know all the details. Not all cases of appendicitis are exactly alike. Not all appendectomies go exactly the same way. Not all people recover the exact same way from appendectomies. Not all players are as critical to their team's chances of success (causing the team to push them along as fast as possible even if there are some risks). Some teams, or some teams' doctors, may be more conservative than others. There are a host of factors here, and we really don't know what caused Penn to be out for a longer time then, say, Ben Rothlesberger or Roy Halladay.

I just want to stress that I'm not ruling out the possibility that Penn's recovery took longer than it should have because he didn't rehab properly, didn't have any tolerance for pain, or because he's just a slow healer. But, we really don't know any of that, so I don't think its fair to just toss it out there as if it is fact.

You are probably right but it unfortunately seems everything I read or hear about this guy just annoys me to no end. If only we could turn back time and have Penn switched with Maine in the Benson deal I would be a most happy Oriole fan.

[Sports Guy]

Ben Roethlesberger of the Steelers had the same surgery, missed a week of practice and one game and was back out on the field starting the next game and taking vicious hits in one of the roughest games in sports. His total recovery time took less than 10 days. He didn't need a "rehab" either.:rolleyestf:

And guess what....HE SUCKED!!

Every Steeler fan acknowledged that Cowher, Ben and the rest of the organization rushed him back way too fast and that was pretty much the reason they didn't make the playoffs.

As usual, you are completely wrong here.

Yes, it really only takes about 48-72 hours for the pain to subside(i know because i had the surgery) however, you can lose a lot of weight and between weight loss, loss of energy and inactivity, it can take a few weeks to get back to normal...Does it need to be 6 weeks? No, probably not but he was like 21 or 22, so why rush it?

[Old#5fan]

And guess what....HE SUCKED!!

Every Steeler fan acknowledged that Cowher, Ben and the rest of the organization rushed him back way too fast and that was pretty much the reason they didn't make the playoffs.

As usual, you are completely wrong here.

Yes, it really only takes about 48-72 hours for the pain to subside(i know because i had the surgery) however, you can lose a lot of weight and between weight loss, loss of energy and inactivity, it can take a few weeks to get back to normal...Does it need to be 6 weeks? No, probably not but he was like 21 or 22, so why rush it?

Why rush it? Are you joking? As I stated earlier on this thread, I donated a kidney at age 47 and was back to work within two weeks and I wasn't close to being in the shape or having the youth of Penn.Also, as someone else mentioned didn't Roy Halliday have an appendectomy and missed way less time than Penn? One would think that Halliday having immensely more value than Penn would be more likely not to be "rushed" to return?:scratchchinhmm:

Anyway wasn't he primed to be called up around that time? It seemed to me if there ever was a time to "rush" it, that would have been it. He has essentially been below expectations ever since. He should have been throwing after two weeks on the side and pitching as normal well within 30 days. This was about the most ridiculous thing I ever heard as far as overkill on time needed to recover for such a young player and I thought so even at the time. I think Penn is a joke, only no Oriole fan is laughing.

[ChaosLex]

Penn has nice start tonight!

6.0IP 7H 0R 1BB 4K

:clap3:

Sweet! Hopefully, both him and Liz are coming around. They both have the chance to be dominant members of our bullpen.

[Frobby]

If only we could turn back time and have Penn switched with Maine in the Benson deal I would be a most happy Oriole fan.

I'm just curious - did you feel that way at the time? Remember, that trade occurred before the appendectomy, before the misplaced equipment bag episode, etc.

Just for the record: I really liked John Maine when he was in the minors. In fact, I was disappointed in May 2005 when Penn got a call-up from AA instead of Maine getting called up from AAA. But I have to tell you, having seen both of them pitch for the Orioles that season (including having seen Penn in person in his major league debut), I certainly expected Penn to have the better major league career.

Just to remind you of their 2005 lines:

Penn (age 20): 38.1 IP, 6.34 ERA, 1.75 WHIP, 4.23 K/9, 0.86 K/BB

Maine (age 24): 40 IP, 6.30 ERA, 1.58 WHIP, 5.40 K/9, 1.00 K/BB

Maine did marginally better, but considering the 4-year age gap and the fact that Penn had been jumped to the majors with far less experience than Maine had at that point, Penn seemed a lot more promising at the time.

And, he still may turn out to be very good. Remember, he's still younger now than Maine was in that 2005 season. In that season, before getting his stint with the O's, Maine posted a rather forgettable 4.56 ERA for Ottawa. Penn's current numbers are pretty comparable (4.68 ERA at present).

In other words, if the O's made a mistake in 2005 by giving up on Maine too soon, they shouldn't make that same mistake by giving up on Penn.

[Sports Guy]

Why rush it? Are you joking? As I stated earlier on this thread, I donated a kidney at age 47 and was back to work within two weeks and I wasn't close to being in the shape or having the youth of Penn.Also, as someone else mentioned didn't Roy Halliday have an appendectomy and missed way less time than Penn? One would think that Halliday having immensely more value than Penn would be more likely not to be "rushed" to return?:scratchchinhmm

:

Comparing your job and Penn's is a joke although totally expected of you.

Anyway wasn't he primed to be called up around that time? It seemed to me if there ever was a time to "rush" it, that would have been it. He has essentially been below expectations ever since. He should have been throwing after two weeks on the side and pitching as normal well within 30 days. This was about the most ridiculous thing I ever heard as far as overkill on time needed to recover for such a young player and I thought so even at the time. I think Penn is a joke, only no Oriole fan is laughing.

This is yet another case of you having no idea about what you are talking about...This is just one of many subjects where you pick a player, spout off a bunch of nonsense about them, show everyone how freakin clueless you are and then run with it.

End of the day, he probably took a few more weeks then needed but since he was following doctor and team orders, I am not sure why you are even complaining about it other than you hate Penn and, as usual, you are making stuff up about a player you don't like.

For once, it would be cool to see you use intelligence in a conversation but sadly enough, i am not sure if you are capable of that.

[Crazysilver03]

To answer OldFan#5, Penn was called up to pitch in Seattle and then had to be rushed to the ER for the appendectomy. That is when Loewen was called up to make his major league debut.

[forest leech]

Man for someone who is wrong so much you seem to have no problem throwing out insults and half-assed opinions of players you know little to nothing about. If nothing else, at least you're consistent.

[Old#5fan]

I'm just curious - did you feel that way at the time? Remember, that trade occurred before the appendectomy, before the misplaced equipment bag episode, etc.

Just for the record: I really liked John Maine when he was in the minors. In fact, I was disappointed in May 2005 when Penn got a call-up from AA instead of Maine getting called up from AAA. But I have to tell you, having seen both of them pitch for the Orioles that season (including having seen Penn in person in his major league debut), I certainly expected Penn to have the better major league career.

Just to remind you of their 2005 lines:

Penn (age 20): 38.1 IP, 6.34 ERA, 1.75 WHIP, 4.23 K/9, 0.86 K/BB

Maine (age 24): 40 IP, 6.30 ERA, 1.58 WHIP, 5.40 K/9, 1.00 K/BB

Maine did marginally better, but considering the 4-year age gap and the fact that Penn had been jumped to the majors with far less experience than Maine had at that point, Penn seemed a lot more promising at the time.

And, he still may turn out to be very good. Remember, he's still younger now than Maine was in that 2005 season. In that season, before getting his stint with the O's, Maine posted a rather forgettable 4.56 ERA for Ottawa. Penn's current numbers are pretty comparable (4.68 ERA at present).

In other words, if the O's made a mistake in 2005 by giving up on Maine too soon, they shouldn't make that same mistake by giving up on Penn.

No, at the time of the trade I thought they were both comparable. I didn't really have a preference. I sure wish someone would have used their crystal ball or stat guru knowledge to predict the future on the Orioles side though ,so it would have been Penn in the trade rather than Maine! Of course, as you state they all probably had Penn as the better prospect at the time based on the almighty minor league stats. Just another example, of stats being not worth much, oh wait, I won't go there again! Time for my smiley!

[Old#5fan]

Hard to believe you thought they were comparable. Penn was clearly the better prospect with a better future at the time. No way the O's would have included him in a trade like that.

I didn't buy into all the hype surrounding him. No minor league player or pitcher ever impresses me all that much until I can see what he does at the ML level. Even Wieters.

[Frobby]

I didn't buy into all the hype surrounding him. No minor league player or pitcher ever impresses me all that much until I can see what he does at the ML level. Even Wieters.

Having traveled to Frederick last weekend to get a look for myself, I assure you it won't take you long to be impressed by Wieters.

Back to Penn vs. Maine. As I posted, their major league numbers were similar in 2005. But at the time, Maine was 24 and it appeared the only plus pitch he had was a fastball that was 92-94 mph that he could command very well. His breaking stuff and offspeed stuff were very average and he did not command them well. Whenever I saw him pitch that year, he'd do pretty well the first time throught the lineup, but then the batters would adjust and he couldn't adjust back.

Penn, on the other hand, was 20 years old and very inexperienced in terms of minor league service. His fastball easily hit 95 mph with good command (not as good as Maine's). He had a very good changeup that he wasn't afraid to throw on any count. His curve ball was not spectacular, but better than any of Maine's breaking pitches.

Based on that, and especially considering the difference in age and experience, I would have expected Penn to develop into the better pitcher. He certainly seemed on the way there before his appendectomy (his ERA in Ottawa in 2006 was 2-3 runs/game lower than Maine's at that level, and at a much younger age). But since his appendectomy, he's had trouble staying on the field for any length of time. His command hasn't been as good, and especially, from when I saw him in September 2006, his curve ball had regressed substantially.

In the meantime, Maine has developed a sinker/slider that is far superior to anything he ever exhibited as an Oriole in the majors or the minors. That's why he has been so much more successful than what I had expected.

What Penn needs to do is stay healthy. If he can do that, and get his command back to where it was 2 years ago, he'll eventually be a good major league pitcher. I'm not sure he'll ever be as good as Maine has turned out to be, but that's a credit to Maine, not an insult to Penn.

[oriole_way]

Penn, on the other hand, was 20 years old and very inexperienced in terms of minor league service. His fastball easily hit 95 mph with good command (not as good as Maine's). He had a very good changeup that he wasn't afraid to throw on any count. His curve ball was not spectacular, but better than any of Maine's breaking pitches.

Based on that, and especially considering the difference in age and experience, I would have expected Penn to develop into the better pitcher. He certainly seemed on the way there before his appendectomy (his ERA in Ottawa in 2006 was 2-3 runs/game lower than Maine's at that level, and at a much younger age). But since his appendectomy, he's had trouble staying on the field for any length of time. His command hasn't been as good, and especially, from when I saw him in September 2006, his curve ball had regressed substantially.

Did his fastball really easily hit 95 mph? I can't say that I remember all of his starts, much less all of his pitches, but that seems like hyperbole to me.

And if he was hitting 95 easily back then, do you (or anybody else) know how hard he throws now?

[Frobby]

Did his fastball really easily hit 95 mph? I can't say that I remember all of his starts, much less all of his pitches, but that seems like hyperbole to me.

And if he was hitting 95 easily back then, do you (or anybody else) know how hard he throws now?

Maybe I should have said frequently, which is what I meant by easily.

[Old#5fan]

QUOTE=oriole_way;1330777]Did his fastball really easily hit 95 mph? I can't say that I remember all of his starts, much less all of his pitches, but that seems like hyperbole to me.

And if he was hitting 95 easily back then, do you (or anybody else) know how hard he throws now?

I guess that awful life threatening experience of an appendectomy must have ruined him for good. :rolleyestf: I 'd hate to see it if he had any real hurdles to overcome.[