Mussina a Hall of Famer? Would he go in as an Oriole or MFY?

[Roll Tide]

I think he should go in! I have to believe it will be as a Yankee

[25 Nuggets]

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F2E5D8FC5199DFAF!7731&ithint=file,xlsm&app=Excel&authkey=!AE2Lu5P1f92OW8o

Votes: 51 (11.7%)

45 (88%) Jeff Bagwell

45 (88%) Tim Raines

41 (80%) Ivan Rodriguez

38 (75%) Trevor Hoffman

37 (73%) Vladimir Guerrero

35 (69%) Barry Bonds

35 (69%) Roger Clemens

32 (63%) Edgar Martinez

31 (61%) Mike Mussina

26 (51%) Curt Schilling

21 (41%) Manny Ramirez

18 (35%) Lee Smith

11 (22%) Larry Walker

8 (16%) Jett Kent

8 (16%) Fred McGriff

5 (10%) Jorge Posada

5 (10%) Sammy Sosa

4 (8%) Gary Sheffield

4 (8%) Billy Wagner

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

Mussina won 270 games.    There is no other pitcher who will reach 270 any time in the next 6-7 years at least.   At some point, voters will realize that 270 wins in Mussina's era is easily equivalent to 300 wins in, say, Jim Palmer's era.

Except the fact that four of his peers: Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, and Randy Johnson reached that milestone.

I hope as the hall evolves they don't look at 270 wins as being equivalent as 300 wins.  I hope they view wins as being a poor way to gauge a pitcher's worthiness.

[Can_of_corn]

Exciting to see Raines and Bonds that high.

[NashLumber]

2 hours ago, ArtVanDelay said:

47.6 as an Oriole, 35.1 as a Yankee. 

He should go in as an Oriole and there's really no debate. 

Agree. He became "Mike Mussina" as an Oriole. 

[ArtVanDelay]

27 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Exciting to see Raines and Bonds that high.

I'd like to see Larry Walker in but he'll never make it. 

[Frobby]

47 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Except the fact that four of his peers: Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, and Randy Johnson reached that milestone.

I hope as the hall evolves they don't look at 270 wins as being equivalent as 300 wins.  I hope they view wins as being a poor way to gauge a pitcher's worthiness.

I don't think anyone disputes that Clemens, Maddux and Johnson were better than Mussina.    Glavine, you could debate either way.    I think wins are always going to be a factor in HOF voting, but not as big a factor as they used to be.    Obviously, there are more esoteric arguments that could be made for Mussina based on rWAR, fWAR, etc.   Clemens is the only pitcher with a higher rWAR than Mussina who is not in the HOF, and that is solely because of the steroids issue.   There are more than 30 starting pitchers in the HOF with a lower rWAR than Mussina.    But I don't need to tell you that.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Except the fact that four of his peers: Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, and Randy Johnson reached that milestone.

I hope as the hall evolves they don't look at 270 wins as being equivalent as 300 wins.  I hope they view wins as being a poor way to gauge a pitcher's worthiness.

I take that to mean that Clemens, Maddux, Glavine, and Johnson would have had win totals near 350 or 400 had they pitched in earlier eras.  Obviously wins aren't a great way to judge pitchers, but (without really checking) the worst pitchers to get to 300 wins were still probably among the half dozen or dozen best pitchers of his era.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, ArtVanDelay said:

I'd like to see Larry Walker in but he'll never make it. 

Never is a long time.  If they wait as long for Walker as they did for Deacon White they'll be having his ceremony in 2128.

[DrungoHazewood]

3 hours ago, weams said:

Schilling and Mussina are the same, and I don't think either should make it. But they will probably put Jeter in and leave Bobby Grich out and they are identical as well.

They better never put Ortiz in if they leave Edgar out either.

I don't see how you can leave Mussina and Schilling out of the Hall when there are at least 20 or 30 clearly inferior pitchers already in Cooperstown.

The difference between Grich and Jeter and Ortiz and Edgar is (to a large degree) many hundreds of productive postseason plate appearances.  But I think all four are deserving, all clearly better than dozens of players already enshrined.

[Superbee83]

I think that He is a Hall of Fame pitcher.

He probably goes in as a Yankee.

Not a big issue for me.

 

 

[25 Nuggets]

14 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't see how you can leave Mussina and Schilling out of the Hall when there are at least 20 or 30 clearly inferior pitchers already in Cooperstown.

Jim Bunning, Stan Covelestki, Dizzy Dean, Red Faber, Waite Hoyt, Addie Joss, Bob Lemon, Ted Lyons, Joe McGinnity, Hal Newhouser, Eppa Rixey, Red Ruffing, Don Sutton, Dazzy Vance, Rube Waddell, Mickey Welch, Vic Willis, Early Wynn.

...and those aren't even the bad selections...

Chief Bender, Jack Chesbro, Lefty Gomez, Burleigh Grimes, Jesse Haines, Catfish Hunter, Rube Marquard, Herb Pennock

[Babypowder]

8 hours ago, 25 Nuggets said:

Jim Bunning, Stan Covelestki, Dizzy Dean, Red Faber, Waite Hoyt, Addie Joss, Bob Lemon, Ted Lyons, Joe McGinnity, Hal Newhouser, Eppa Rixey, Red Ruffing, Don Sutton, Dazzy Vance, Rube Waddell, Mickey Welch, Vic Willis, Early Wynn.

...and those aren't even the bad selections...

Chief Bender, Jack Chesbro, Lefty Gomez, Burleigh Grimes, Jesse Haines, Catfish Hunter, Rube Marquard, Herb Pennock

Don't leave out Tom Glavine, who Mussina was clearly better than.

[Rene88]

I am still sore about Angelos not resigning him. I loved Mike Mussina, I believe he is a HOFer regardless what uniform he wears.

If I were him, I would go in as a Yankee honestly, screw Angelos.

off topic: I still don't get how Lee Smith isn't getting strong consideration and Bruce Sutter is in the HOF easily. Shakes head.

[25 Nuggets]

52 minutes ago, Babypowder said:

Don't leave out Tom Glavine, who Mussina was clearly better than.

Not to the level of the other pitchers I posted.  Glavine could be argued over Mussina and Schilling.

If I wanted to include all the (starting) pitchers I think Mussina and Schilling had better careers than, there would be many more, including some names that might upset people.  But that would go against the idea of "clearly".