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Kevin Gausman, Dylan Bundy -- Primed & Ready


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1 hour ago, Babypowder said:

I would argue Gausman had a very good year already in 2016, so it's fair to be more confident in him this season.

I don't think anyone could dispute that Gausman had a very good year in 2016.    I'm one of those people who thinks his second half was better than his first (i.e., not just because of run support and luck), and that he'll put together an entire season like that in 2017 and be a top-tier no. 2 pitcher.    I feel Bundy has it in him to surpass Gausman if he stays healthy -- but not necessarily in 2017.    For this year, I just want to see him start getting deeper into games and maintain consistency.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Babypowder said:

I would argue Gausman had a very good year already in 2016, so it's fair to be more confident in him this season. I don't know if I would yet agree Bundy's ceiling is higher. It may be, but his peripherals certainly haven't shown it yet. I'm still not anywhere near confident he can stay healthy.

If you're evaluating Bundy's potential, you should focus on the quality of his offerings and mechanics more so than peripherals in his age 23 season after hardly pitching for 2 years.

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19 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

72-48.  He's a winner.  Gausman is 23-31, he obviously doesn't know how to win.

Tillman's 65-33 over the last five years.    His run support has been pretty good, he's a pretty good pitcher, and I do think he seems to bear down with a lead better than many others.   

Gausman's run support has been pretty poor, but he hasn't let it get him down, and I think this year the W's will come.   

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Here's what I'm wondering (after not posting here for several years), how does Dylan Bundy 2016-17 compare to Dylan Bundy 2012, from a purely physical standpoint?  Have his arm issues caused a dip in velocity? Command? Like most people here, we read the articles and saw the stats during his 2012 run to the majors but never had the chance to see him pitch on TV or in person.  Anyone here actually see him pitch when he was 19 that could add some perspective?

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On 2/16/2017 at 9:12 PM, Norfolk orioles said:

They are the most exciting young potential studs we've had in decades.

 

Not sure if that says more about how awful are starting pitching was for decades or is high praise for them but either way I'm excited for (hopefully) a full season of both.

We had Arrieta but weren't patient with him.  We also traded away Hader and Zach Davies.  Back in the day the O's had Curt Schilling and traded him away too.  It's not that we haven't had exciting pitching.  Rather it's that the O's recently have been impatient with some of the young guys they think are secondary, while holding out on some misfires like Daniel Cabrera.

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We gave Arrieta 3.5 seasons and 65 starts in the MLB.  He got worse every single season.  I wish he had turned it around for us, but I really don't think that a case of the Os being impatient.  I'm happy the guy turned it around in CHC, but I have zero reason to think that an additional season and a half in Baltimore would've turn him into the same player.

Hader looks good but hasn't thrown a big league pitch yet, and Davies was trade for Parra, which sure, didn't really work out but he was looking good for MIL that year and the general consensus was we need a move that season.

In the past 20+ years the number of homegrown Os starters that were above average is....like what?  2?  Bedard and Mussina.  I'm really not sure their pitching woes are due to not giving their prospects a decent shot, or if drafting and development have just been sub par since the early 90s.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, CheeryO said:

We had Arrieta but weren't patient with him.  We also traded away Hader and Zach Davies.  Back in the day the O's had Curt Schilling and traded him away too.  It's not that we haven't had exciting pitching.  Rather it's that the O's recently have been impatient with some of the young guys they think are secondary, while holding out on some misfires like Daniel Cabrera.

I wouldn't say we lacked patience with Arrieta.    He pitched parts of four seasons for the major league team, and got worse each year.    Poor development was the issue, not a lack of patience.    

Schilling is 25 years ago, so I think we can leave him out of this discussion.    

I expect Gausman and Bundy to outperform everyone but Arrieta among the Oriole pitching prospects post-Mussina.    And it's not out of the realm of possibility that either might outperform Arrieta in the course of their careers.

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The two of them are really the key to this season and successive ones.  If they both become above average starters, then we're in good shape.  If one or both struggles with ineffectiveness or injury, the outlook isn't as good.

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2 hours ago, CheeryO said:

We had Arrieta but weren't patient with him.  

Patient? The guy was awful. And he had that spongy Mass/Bone spur that he would never get operated on when we were 30 games out.. He insisted on throwing all six of his beautifully shaped pitches even when he had a 2 hitter working with three of them. Six runs in the fourth inning, Arrieta. Scott Boras ruled his training regimen and his coaching. 

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On 2/22/2017 at 1:46 PM, Frobby said:

I wouldn't say we lacked patience with Arrieta.    He pitched parts of four seasons for the major league team, and got worse each year.    Poor development was the issue, not a lack of patience.    

Schilling is 25 years ago, so I think we can leave him out of this discussion.    

I expect Gausman and Bundy to outperform everyone but Arrieta among the Oriole pitching prospects post-Mussina.    And it's not out of the realm of possibility that either might outperform Arrieta in the course of their careers.

It's easy to forget Erik Bedard too.  He's the most recent great Oriole starter, though his greatness was short lived.  He was also traded, though of course his trade was one of the best moves the O's ever made.  If either Gausman or Bundy can approach Bedard's peak performance then we should be quite happy.  Hopefully they will both have more longevity than Bedard.

When we say "poor development" was the problem with Arrieta, what does that mean exactly?  He had developed enough to pitch great for the Cubs less than a year after he left the O's.  It just seems like the O's coaching staff was not letting Arrieta throw the pitches and be the pitcher he needed to be to pitch his best.  Is that the case?  If so that's partly what I mean by lack of patience.  But of course this is all in hindsight.

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On 2/22/2017 at 2:29 PM, weams said:

Patient? The guy was awful. And he had that spongy Mass/Bone spur that he would never get operated on when we were 30 games out.. He insisted on throwing all six of his beautifully shaped pitches even when he had a 2 hitter working with three of them. Six runs in the fourth inning, Arrieta. Scott Boras ruled his training regimen and his coaching. 

I believe you.  But then why did he become a great starter less than a year after he left the O's?  Did the Cubs coaching staff set him straight, or did they leave him alone to be himself?  What changed?

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20 minutes ago, CheeryO said:

I believe you.  But then why did he become a great starter less than a year after he left the O's?  Did the Cubs coaching staff set him straight, or did they leave him alone to be himself?  What changed?

I would not venture a guess. Other than being given away, sent to the minors, and in a different organization with different trainers and different influences. And being forces to fight for his MLB life. Who knows how he accomplished what he has. 

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1 hour ago, CheeryO said:

It's easy to forget Erik Bedard too.  He's the most recent great Oriole starter, though his greatness was short lived.  He was also traded, though of course his trade was one of the best moves the O's ever made.  If either Gausman or Bundy can approach Bedard's peak performance then we should be quite happy.  Hopefully they will both have more longevity than Bedard.

When we say "poor development" was the problem with Arrieta, what does that mean exactly?  He had developed enough to pitch great for the Cubs less than a year after he left the O's.  It just seems like the O's coaching staff was not letting Arrieta throw the pitches and be the pitcher he needed to be to pitch his best.  Is that the case?  If so that's partly what I mean by lack of patience.  But of course this is all in hindsight.

I think you've described the problem correctly, but I wouldn't define not letting a pitcher throw what he's comfortable with a "lack of patience."    It took the Cubs about two weeks to fix him.    

On Bedard, I agree he was for a two year span our best pitcher since Mussina.    I think Gausman and Bundy will have better careers.   Bedard was great when healthy, but unfortunately wasn't healthy very often.    I'm hoping for better luck with these two, though nobody knows if they'll hold up.

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