Orioles Release Bourn (again)

[Enjoy Terror]

1 hour ago, Moondoggie said:

And I realize Orioles fans have been conditioned to think of Mancini as some can't miss hitting prospect, but the truth is that in 125 games at Norfolk last year his OPS was only .775. Sure, he looked great in Baltimore, but we're only talking 15 plate appearances. Tiny sample size. So the jury is really still out. If other clubs valued him as much as the Orioles seem to, you'd think they'd trade him because he's blocked from any significant playing time for the next three years. And it isn't going to do him any good sitting on the bench. If he's going to improve, he needs to play every day.

 

Your first part is all "he's wasn't that great playing every day in the minors" and your second part is "he can't be great without playing every day". Which is it? Is he one step away from greatness or not? 

It's okay to have a role as a weak side platoon. He may not have great career OPS but against lefties he does. Fortunately for him, teams need players to hit lefties, and plenty of teams will carry those niche players.

[Norfolk orioles]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I would not be surprised to see Walker DFA'd if the Orioles need another roster spot. I'd like to see them trade him for maybe a C level minor league shortstop who can field well.

That seems like a logic choice to me.

Mancini is ahead of walker and they are both blocked by Davis and Trumbo so why not move him for something we need, namely a SS in case JJ is really bad off.

 

Walker isn't terrible, I think he could bring back something of modest value.

 

 

[Norfolk orioles]

Well Dan is certainly a man of his word.

 

He said a main priority was improving the outfield defense and that's exactly what he's done by signing Gentry and Bourne.

 

If this somehow guarantees Trumbo will be a full time DH it really ends up being a win win win.

 

We will make RF defense better and add some speed and veteran depth to the lineup.

 

Also, if I remember correctly, Bourne's bat showed a little pop towards the end of the year playing in Camden Yards.

 

He may end up being a very nice buy low rebound candidate like McClouth now that the pressure of his huge contract is off of him.

 

Stranger things have happened.

[Moondoggie]

2 hours ago, Enjoy Terror said:

 

Your first part is all "he's wasn't that great playing every day in the minors" and your second part is "he can't be great without playing every day". Which is it? Is he one step away from greatness or not? 

It's okay to have a role as a weak side platoon. He may not have great career OPS but against lefties he does. Fortunately for him, teams need players to hit lefties, and plenty of teams will carry those niche players.

Why must it be either/or? If he's a power hitter with a .775 OPS in Triple-A, he's probably not truly ready to be an impact bat in the majors (and may never be). But if he ever is to be ready, it will only come with experience and at bats.

And the problem with a DH platoon isn't a matter of whether or not Mancini hits lefties (maybe he can, but he still hasn't done it consistently against big league pitching). It goes back to my original point, which is the problem it creates for the defense. Trumbo is perfectly capable of being the DH every day (with the occasional switch with Davis to give the latter a rest). Trumbo will almost surely hit lefties better than Mancini. Since Trumbo isn't coming out of the lineup, if you DH Mancini then you're putting Trumbo in the outfield. We saw how that worked last year. Since Mancini has no other position, it would make far more sense to carry somebody who gives you some defensive versatility (and credibility).

Oh, and "great" is not a word I'd use to describe his potential, much less his reality. He may be a serviceable big league hitter someday (especially in a platoon role), but it's highly unlikely he'll ever achieve even a small measure of greatness.

[25 Nuggets]

1 hour ago, Norfolk orioles said:

Well Dan is certainly a man of his word.

He said a main priority was improving the outfield defense and that's exactly what he's done by signing Gentry and Bourne.

If this somehow guarantees Trumbo will be a full time DH it really ends up being a win win win.

If you look at his history, by the end of things he usually does what he says he's going to do.  Just maybe not the same way one would guess.  He said he was going to get more starters / swingmen and he did just that by trading for Ynoa and Nuno.

Opening Day lineup - vs Blue Jays (Aaron Sanchez, RHP)?

1. Kim (LF) - DR Bourn
2. Machado (3B)
3. Jones (CF)
4. Davis (1B)
5. Trumbo (DH)
6. Smith (RF) - DR Gentry
7. Castillo (C)
8. Schoop (2B)
9. Hardy (SS)

SP - Kevin Gausman

Rickard and Mancini start in AAA, Santander to DL

[scOtt]

6 hours ago, backwardsk said:

I find it hard to see how he makes the team unless Kim, Trumbo, Davis, or Smith is injured.

We would have benefited from that 26th roster spot.

BOY HOWDY! And I guarantee Buck wanted it. Although, a lot of of teams would have benefited as well. Would have been interesting.

[scOtt]

6 hours ago, George Zuverink said:

So, how many bargain basement  options do we have competing for one roster spot? DD may be an SOB, but he's our SOB.

[scOtt]

5 hours ago, ChuckS said:

I still see it as this:  If Buck and co. is confident Kim can hit lefties then I think he becomes the everyday left fielder.  This pushes Trumbo to DH full time with Smith/Rickard platooning in right.  Bourn becomes an extra outfielder, pinch runner/defensive replacement.  

If they feel Kim cannot hit lefties then I think Mancini makes the team as the DH versus LHP with Trumbo in RF.  For Mancini to be sent down we would still need a RH bat who can hit lefties to platoon with Kim, and I don't see that candidate anywhere.  It's certainly not Bourn.  

So again, it all comes down to what Kim shows he can do in Spring Training.  

I'm catching up with this thread...

Wouldn't Gentry be better at that? Gotta be faster than Bourn still.

 

[wildcard]

Dan is throwing a bunch crap against the wall to see what will stick.  These players signed in the last month are flawed.  

Here is what I see:

Mancini will outhit all the late additions in ST but there is no spot for him.  He goes to AAA and is trade bait for later  in the season.

Gentry still has great speed and defensive ability but  1) he has averaged 45 games and 105 AB over the past 3 years  2)  He hasn't shown he can still hit in that three year period.   Odds are he is on the DL within  a few months if he makes the major league roster.

Bourn has lost a few steps at 34.  He has hit 252/313/337/650 over the past three years and he is in decline.   I don't see what he adds to the  team as a left-handed hitter.

Rickard will play this year at 26.  He should still be improving.  He hit 313/367/494/861 vs lefties last year.  That is something the O's need.  His defense is probably every bit as good as Bourn's.  He hit both lefties and righties in the minors.   He has options,  so maybe the O's send him down to start the season.  Not a move I favor.   My bet is he plays more games for the O's this year than Gentry or Bourn.

Smith and Kim are on the team but their playing time could be impacted by their defense.   Kim is supposed to be in better condition than last year.  I want to see if that helps him show improvement.  Gets a chance to hit lefties. Smith can hit right-handers,

Tavarez - We have not even seen what this guy can do yet.  He is young at 25.  Should improve with experience.  Had a big year in the minors last year after a mediocre minor league career.  Some reports say he is fast. Others say his speed in average.   Just have to wait and see.

Santander to the DL.

Trumbo - Doesn't look like Dan wants him in the outfield.

Walker has an option and is good depth.  Has power. Harbor Park hurts his numbers.  Hit 274/321/520/841 on the road. He is not much of an outfielder and is blocked at first . Has very little trade value.  Much less than Mancini.  

Daniel Alvarez has an option. He's 28.  His roster spot is in jeopardy.  Didn't show power last year.  Doesn't walk.  Average range.  Great arm.  

Jones, Smith, Kim and Rickard are still the cream of the outfielders in camp. The fifth spot is a toss up between Gentry, Bourn and Tavarez.  

 

[weams]

Dan Connolly weighs in.

Quote

 

Right now, you have to assume Hyun Soo Kim, Adam Jones, Seth Smith and Mark Trumbo have made the team. So, that leaves one outfielder – two if they take 12 pitchers north – for the 25-man roster. Bourn could start the season in the minors since he is on a minor-league deal. But once his contract is purchased by the big-league club, he can’t come off the roster without going through waivers (or being outright released).

The club would love to keep at least one of their Rule 5 outfielders – Aneury Tavarez or Anthony Santander – but that means a clogged roster spot all season.

Therefore, because Rickard has minor-league options remaining and is coming back from injury, he could be the odd man out to start the season.

Although somewhat unfair, it probably wouldn’t be a terrible thing for the 25-year-old’s development. He could get more minor-league experience and be great insurance when/if needed during the season.

 

http://www.baltimorebaseball.com/2017/02/20/thoughts-re-signing-bourn-affects-leadoff-spot-outfield-rickard-jones/

Quote

I wouldn’t have endorsed a major financial investment for a 34-year-old whose game is so dependent on healthy legs. But on a minor-league deal that’ll cost just $2 million in the majors for a guy who has a track record and fits seamlessly into the clubhouse, it’s another Duquette, February no-brainer.

 

[weams]

4 hours ago, scOtt said:

I'm catching up with this thread...

Wouldn't Gentry be better at that? Gotta be faster than Bourn still.

 

Gentry can stay at AAA until needed also. Norfolk does not have to be a development stop. 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, weams said:

Dan Connolly weighs in.

http://www.baltimorebaseball.com/2017/02/20/thoughts-re-signing-bourn-affects-leadoff-spot-outfield-rickard-jones/

 

Bourn has a opt out.  I don't see him going to the minors.  He makes the team or he leaves to find a major league contract elsewhere.

[bobmc]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Bourn has a opt out.  I don't see him going to the minors.  He makes the team or he leaves to ride out into the sunset, Tesla in auto drive mode....

I altered your original post with this hilarious alternative factoid!  (caffeine surging)....

[weams]

Bourne is essentially on the the OD team unless injured. My take.  

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

Dan is throwing a bunch crap against the wall to see what will stick.  These players signed in the last month are flawed.  

Here is what I see:

Mancini will outhit all the late additions in ST but there is no spot for him.  He goes to AAA and is trade bait for later  in the season.

Gentry still has great speed and defensive ability but  1) he has averaged 45 games and 105 AB over the past 3 years  2)  He hasn't shown he can still hit in that three year period.   Odds are he is on the DL within  a few months if he makes the major league roster.

Bourn has lost a few steps at 34.  He has hit 252/313/337/650 over the past three years and he is in decline.   I don't see what he adds to the  team as a left-handed hitter.

Rickard will play this year at 26.  He should still be improving.  He hit 313/367/494/861 vs lefties last year.  That is something the O's need.  His defense is probably every bit as good as Bourn's.  He hit both lefties and righties in the minors.   He has options,  so maybe the O's send him down to start the season.  Not a move I favor.   My bet is he plays more games for the O's this year than Gentry or Bourn.

Smith and Kim are on the team but their playing time could be impacted by their defense.   Kim is supposed to be in better condition than last year.  I want to see if that helps him show improvement.  Gets a chance to hit lefties. Smith can hit right-handers,

Tavarez - We have not even seen what this guy can do yet.  He is young at 25.  Should improve with experience.  Had a big year in the minors last year after a mediocre minor league career.  Some reports say he is fast. Others say his speed in average.   Just have to wait and see.

Santander to the DL.

Trumbo - Doesn't look like Dan wants him in the outfield.

Walker has an option and is good depth.  Has power. Harbor Park hurts his numbers.  Hit 274/321/520/841 on the road. He is not much of an outfielder and is blocked at first . Has very little trade value.  Much less than Mancini.  

Daniel Alvarez has an option. He's 28.  His roster spot is in jeopardy.  Didn't show power last year.  Doesn't walk.  Average range.  Great arm.  

Jones, Smith, Kim and Rickard are still the cream of the outfielders in camp. The fifth spot is a toss up between Gentry, Bourn and Tavarez.  

 

I don't consider the options Dan has presented to Buck to be a "bunch of crap."    These are 4th/5th outfielder candidates, not starters, and in that context I think Buck has a lot to choose from.     It should be a very competitive camp and we should have some decent guys stashed in Norfolk among those who don't make the roster.    The guy I find myself rooting for is Gentry.     He's the best defender in the group, and possibly the best baserunner, and strikes me as the most useful guy late in games.    Obviously his health is a hug question mark, and he has to be able to hit near his career average as opposed to what he's done the last couple of years.    It should be an interesting spring watching all these guys.